------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: All Subject: Music/Movies/Etc Date: Fri May 13 09:52:08 CDT 1994 Message number: 1 Reply to message number: unavailable This base is for the discussion of music, and other forms of audio and visual entertainment such as movies and interactive entertainment. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LEMON To: Big Brother Subject: HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! Date: Sun Aug 18 08:11:33 CDT 1996 Message number: 2 Reply to message number: 1 "hardworking capitalist"!? damn, that is a contradiction. Why do you think people should emulate the GE president? How scary. What next, we all should try to be like those nice friendly people at Gillette? The country needs many less buisnessmen. Buisnessmen are the most boring race (yes race) of people ever to walk the planet. They have no aspirations and no goals and no creativity, and for those reasons they choose "Buisness" as a major, where you can learn nothing but moneymaking. They all look alike, in the suit and ties, and they reakky just cut themselves from the rest of the world. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SPECTER To: Lemon Subject: Re: HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! Date: Sun Aug 18 16:56:58 CDT 1996 Message number: 3 Reply to message number: 2 L> needs many less buisnessmen. Buisnessmen are the most boring race (yes race) L> of people ever to walk the planet. They have no aspirations and no goals and L> no creativity, and for those reasons they choose "Buisness" as a major, wher L> you can learn nothing but moneymaking. They all look alike, in the suit and L> ties, and they reakky just cut themselves from the rest of the world. definitely. All the aspiring business students around my school are boring capitalists who want nothing more than to make a lot of money. And none of them seem to have any art in their souls. Nothing creative going on inside their heads, just the numbers necessary to become wealthy... It annoys me that in my school most of them are lauded for their wonderful work... -Specter ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LEMON To: Specter Subject: It's A Human Skull On The Ground Date: Sun Aug 18 22:53:00 CDT 1996 Message number: 4 Reply to message number: 3 That's not 100% true, as the concept of "free enterprise" allows channels for those with creative spirits to excercise such, but unfortunately, to get the support needed, a creative person needs help of said corporate scum (as I've been finding out a lot lately) But the real question is : How can one live quite so artless? And what dehumanizes them to the point of being such? Ex-Girlfriends? Religion? I opt for the first, as most buisnessmen really don't seem to have religious tendancies (not that that's BAD) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Specter Subject: Re: HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! Date: Mon Aug 19 09:03:21 CDT 1996 Message number: 5 Reply to message number: 3 L> needs many less buisnessmen. Buisnessmen are the most boring race (yes race) L> of people ever to walk the planet. They have no aspirations and no goals and S> definitely. All the aspiring business students around my school are boring S> capitalists who want nothing more than to make a lot of money. And none of S> them seem to have any art in their souls. Nothing creative going on inside S> their heads, just the numbers necessary to become wealthy... It annoys me Welllll . . . I think Steve Jobs, who was one of the founders of Apple, and now, Pixal, might disagree. His WHOLE thing was being creatice and then making his creations available to other people, and he becams a millionaire in the process. Percy Ross is also a millionaire, who writes a newspaper column and gives a lot of money away to people who need it. He got started because his father owned a junkyard and Percy knew that all of those old car batteries still had a lot of copper in them, and he began to rebuild and sell them, recycle the acid and spent copper cells. There are less dirty and less creative ways for a kid to earn money. Admittedly, there are a lot of jerks like those you mentioned, but we also have to appreciat the brilliant and creative people who can and do drive the markets. In his speech yesterday, Ross Perot discussed another businessman -- a shoemaker named Benjamin, woh heard that George Washington's soldiers were fighting barefoot in the snow in New Jersey in winter. He pulled up to his cobbler's bench and started making shoes for the soldiers. He took them into his home while he worked on their shoes. He was proclaimed a patriot by George Washington, and drummed out of the Quaker meeting for assisting in a war. :) Then there is Paul Revere, who made and sold pewterware and silver. Then there was the first Chamber of Commerce -- tha merchants who were tired of paying double to import English tea, threw it overboard, and had a Tea Party. That was *very* creative. I think what we need to do is watch for and appreciate more people like this and ignore the ones who are in it for money alone. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BRIAREOS HECATONCHIRES To: Froggy Subject: business types Date: Mon Aug 19 13:17:47 CDT 1996 Message number: 6 Reply to message number: 5 Yep, Mr. Jobs, of Pix*ar* is definitely a smart cookie. The idea of using windows on-screen as the interface was fabulous, but Microsoft kind of took it over. Which has lots of economists wondering what was going on; the creator of the best idea didn't win. It's pretty obvious to me, though - he just acted dumb by not licensing. Anyway, as far as I know, yeah, people with MBAs are, with a few exceptions, just greed-stupid bastards. The few exceptions are the sort of demented geniuses who come out of places like Stanford and Harvard. They're a special breed; may or not be greedy, but sort of scary-smart too. Or at least that's how they're regarded. The only person I know who's been to either school is my dad, who has, yes, an MBA, but I think just maybe* that's not the best example to use. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DARKSHINE To: Specter Subject: Re: HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! Date: Mon Aug 19 23:21:06 CDT 1996 Message number: 7 Reply to message number: 3 S> definitely. All the aspiring business students around my school are boring S> capitalists who want nothing more than to make a lot of money. And none of S> them seem to have any art in their souls. Nothing creative going on inside S> their heads, just the numbers necessary to become wealthy... It annoys me I'm a writer and have art coming out of my ears. I've also had money making schemes dancing in my head since first grade. What does that make me? |05 . ś . ś . |05 ®(š=-Darkshine-=š)Æ |05 ł . ł . ł ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LEMON To: Froggy Subject: duck sauce Date: Tue Aug 20 00:45:09 CDT 1996 Message number: 8 Reply to message number: 5 F> In his speech yesterday, Ross Perot discussed another businessman - Wow, we're actually quoting Ross Perot? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Lemon Subject: Re: duck sauce Date: Tue Aug 20 02:42:43 CDT 1996 Message number: 9 Reply to message number: 8 F> In his speech yesterday, Ross Perot discussed another businessman - L> L> Wow, we're actually quoting Ross Perot? Well, *everybody* says something useful once in a while, no matter how seldom. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SPECTER To: Darkshine Subject: Re: HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! Date: Tue Aug 20 04:23:04 CDT 1996 Message number: 10 Reply to message number: 7 D> I'm a writer and have art coming out of my ears. I've also had money D> making schemes dancing in my head since first grade. What does that make me Normal. Most people want to make money... Some go about it more creatively than others... Artists just come up with better ways to make money... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: LEMON Subject: duck sauce Date: Tue Aug 20 15:57:51 CDT 1996 Message number: 11 Reply to message number: unavailable L>F> In his speech yesterday, Ross Perot discussed another businessma L> Wow, we're actually quoting Ross Perot? Wow, I'm actually quoting you? --- ž QMPro 1.53 ž "!" <-- That's all she wrote. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LEMON To: Froggy Subject: feel helpless? Date: Wed Aug 21 03:34:51 CDT 1996 Message number: 12 Reply to message number: 9 F> Well, *everybody* says something useful once in a while, no matter F> how seldom. :) Or how insane they are. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LEMON To: Starfox Subject: strike anywhere Date: Wed Aug 21 03:35:50 CDT 1996 Message number: 13 Reply to message number: 11 L> Wow, we're actually quoting Ross Perot? S> S> Wow, I'm actually quoting you? Okay, I'M the one with the stupid messages... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: AAN#127 Date: Wed Aug 21 20:17:14 CDT 1996 Message number: 14 Reply to message number: unavailable nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnn AANEWS nnnnnnnnnn #127 uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu 8/13/96 http://www.atheists.org In This Issue... * More GOP Convention Coverage ~ Abortion Ban, School Prayer, Aid to Religious Schools OK'd by GOP ~ "Family" Films a Flop ~ Ass-Kickin' Tough Guys Under the GOP Big Tent * About This List... "UNITY'' PLATFORM SUPPORTS PRAYER, RELIGIOUS SOCIAL AGENDA Republicans kicked off their 1996 national convention yesterday with computerized, sound-byte theatrics, a round of speeches calling for party unity, and a platform which some pundits believe suggests that Pat Buchanan, not Bob Dole, really sets the direction of the GOP. The abortion debate still looms large in the background, despite rousing speeches from the likes of Gen. Colin Powell, former First Lady Nancy Reagan, and ex-Presidents George Bush and Gerald Ford. * The party convention reflects the ultimate postmodernist triumph of style over substances; weighty orations are considered passe, speeches are thoroughly vetted and reduced to media-digestible length, and the main podium area has been transformed into a stage set which at times resembles the half-time show at the Super Bowl. As the Democrats are sure to do, Republicans tromped out the usual array of safe "social diversity" icons which USA TODAY described as "Native Americans in full tribal dress, a black child singer and a 12-year-old girl with AIDS." * American media seems to giving equal portions of coverage to Dole's tax package, the party flap over abortion, and a round of fluff interviews from the convention floor. Sadly lacking, though, is coverage on other issues buried in the party platform. Planks From The "Family Values" Platform In a series of stage-managed maneuvers yesterday, GOP Platform Chairman Rep. Henry Hyde (Ill.) faced little opposition in getting key planks of the 1996 platform document approved. A section titled "Families and Society" begins with a quote made by Bob Dole which declares that "The alternative to cold bureaucracy is not indifference. It is warmth of families and neighborhoods, charities, churches, synagogues and communities. The value-shaping institutions have the tools to reclaim lives -- individual responsibility, tough love, and spiritual renewal. They do more than care for the body; they restore the spirit." Individual planks supported elements of the Christian Coalition "Contract With the American Family," and key pieces of religious-right legislation moving through congress. Henry Hyde's version of the Religious Equality Amendment (euphemistically now termed the Religious Freedom Amendment), which would blur or eradicate constitutional state-church separation, got a boost from planks and statements in the platform: -- --"While recognizing a role for government in dealing with social ills, we look to mediating institutions -- religious and community groups, private associations of all kinds -- to take the lead in tackling the social ills that some government programs have only worsened." Hyde's amendment, along with the recently-passed Welfare Reform Bill, call for greater government assistance to private, religious groups in administering social welfare programs. Critics and state-church separationists see such a move as effectively gutting the Establishment Clause, and giving government funds to religious movements -- regardless of the purpose for which they are intended or used. The platform also hailed symbolic legislation such as the Defense of Marriage Act, another key religious chestnut which defines "marriage" as the legal union of one man and one woman. Under "Improving Education," Republicans pledged to abolish the Department of Education, "end federal meddling in our schools, and promote family choice at all levels of learning." "Family choice" is a euphemism for voucher schemes, a key goal of religious right groups and even the Roman Catholic Church which in many states would be the major recipient of government funds in such programs. While calling for less government intrusion into "family" life, the platform nevertheless chose to advise all Americans on the best way to conduct their personal affairs in sexual areas. -- "Abstinence education in the home will lead to less need for birth control services and fewer abortions. We support educational initiatives to promote chastity until marriage as the expected standard of behavior...We oppose school-based clinics, which provide referrals, counseling, and related services for contraception and abortion." As expected, the platform also supported prayer as an acceptable objective of government policy: -- "We will continue to work for the return of voluntary prayer in our schools and will strongly enforce the Republican legislation that guarantees equal access to school facilities by student religious groups. We encourage State legislatures to pass statutes which prohibit local school boards from adopting policies of denial regarding voluntary school prayer." That plank is a natural red-flag for First Amendment activists and civil libertarians. Ironically, it vould violate the "local control" sentiments which Republican prayer-gurus like Henry Hude and Orrin Hatch praise in criticizing federal court decisions, in the cases of schoolboards which moved to stop intrusive religious ritual. It also would overturn a considerable body of findings that so-called "voluntary" prayer is a myth, since students who do not participate often find themselves being discriminated against, harassed, and even subjected to physical violence. Under the section "Improving America's Health Care," the platform supports "increased emphasis on prevention of dieases" like Alzheimer's, breast cancer, prostate cancer, and diabetes, then suddenly calls "for fetal protection in biomedical research." It also echoes the current faddish outrage over teen sexuality be insisting that "About half the children of today's teen welfare mothers were fathered in statutory rape," ignoring the fact that "statutory rape" includes consentual sex before a legal age which can vary considerably from state to state. It also adds: -- "To ensure that religiously affiliate institutions can fulfill their helping mission, we endorse Republican legislation to stop discrimination against them in government programs." There was little to stop passage of the platform plank on the abortion subject which declared: "The unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and we endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment's protections apply to unborn children." (Some see a peculiar irony in that reference, since other GOP proposals concerning illegal immigrants and their offspring would give more protection to a fetus than to a fully developed human being.) Still Lurking A major obstacle now facing the Dole-Kemp campaign team will be getting "beyond" the abortion question. Republicans are in the minority on this crucial questions; a national poll conducted last month by MSNBC, for instance, found that 60 percent of Americans describe themselves as "pro-choice," although they may not personally advocate abortion. The Dallas Morning News surveyed GOP convention delegates, and discovered that Christian Coalition Director Ralph Reed should indeed worry about the unity and homogeneity of "pro-life" forces on the floor. 25% of the delegates described themselves as "pro-choice," about half agreed with Dole's stance that abortion should be banned except in exceptional cases like rape, and only 12% supported an across-the-board prohibition on abortion. * While Family Research Council President Gary Bauer praised the platform, and declared the GOP was "a pro-life party," Susan Cullman of Republican Coalition for Choice lamented that "This platform (on abortion) is totally unacceptable. We are very upset. This document is even worse thant the 1992 platform. It is more severe." * Outside the convention hall, pro-choice leaders in the party conducted an impromptu press conference yesterday afternoon and promised to continue the fight in representing the "majority" view. California Governor Pete Wilson said "We will not be shouted down. And we will not go away." Maine Sen. Olympia Snowe noted: "All the polls have shown that the majority of Republicans and the majority of Americans are opposed to the abortion ban plank." And Bill Weld of Massachusetts added that the pro-choice element in the party had "come a lot further than 1992 in Houston when there was just two delegations in favor of abortion rights. But my hopes are by 2000 the majority outside the hall will be the majority inside the hall." On Sunday, both Gov. Weld and Sen.Snowe appeared at a San Diego abortion rights rally, and pledged to continue the fight against the Human Life Amendment. Snowe promised that Republicans "can also be the party that believes in...providing a woman sovereignty over her own body." * Truly locked-out of the convention process is the Log Cabin Republicans, a gay GOP organization with 10,000 members. According to the San Francisco Examiner, the group is "in bitter indecision over whether to endorse Bob Dole," and has set Friday as the deadline for the Dole-Kemp campaign to actively seek the group's support. The Log Cabin Republicans may turn out to be yet another test of the "big tent" and "inclusion" policies which Republican Chairman Haley Barbour has been boasting about in public, especially on the floor of the convention. If Dole does seek the group's endorsement, it would reverse his position of last year when he returned a $1,000 donation from the Log Cabin Republicans after squawking fromreligious groups. * One indication of the power wielded by religious right groups is the shameless media courting of figures such as Gary Bauer, Ralph Reed and Phyllis Schlafly. The groups they represent were once considered a "fringe" even inside the GOP; the high profile status of such leaders, though, is testament to Reed's statement over the weekend that "Christians have arrived" in the respectable, American political mainstream. Schlafly, head of the Eagle Forum, was gushing with opinions and reads yesterday and seemed to be a regular in the CNN-2 interview lineup. *** ''FAMILY FILMS'' A BUST, BUT PARTY HAS ITS OWN MUSCLE The choice of Jack Kemp as a Dole running mate surprised a number of people, including President Clinton, who though that Florida Senator Connie Mack was slated for the VP slot. Kemp and Dole have disagreed on a number of economic issues, and the former congressman has been presented as being "less vehement" than other possible candidates on social issues. But appearances aren't everything. For starters, Kemp is a co-founder of the "Empower America" group with religious "kultur"-guru William Bennett. It was Bennett who along with Pat Buchanan ignited the "culture war" theme which came out of the Republican Convention in 1992 -- and which, suggested some observers, may have cost George Bush a second term as President." For Kemp and Bennet, the Empower America groups seems to reflect an ambiguous, even contradictory theme concerning the relationship of individuals and government. Kemp is involved mostly in EA forums and conferences which emphasize economic and technological growth issues from flat tax proposals to "How government spending is smothering the economy." Bennet, though, seems to morbidly dwell on social themes like obnoxious rap lyrics and Hollywood offerings such as Pulp Fiction, Showgirls and Striptease. In May, he announced "Round Two" in Empower America's "values campaign" supposedly directed at "obscene and harmful music lyrics being produced and marketed by major entertainment companies." Kemp's name was conspicuously absent from the EA press release, though, which instead focused on the efforts of Sen. Joe Lieberman and the puzzling figure of C. DeLores Tucker, Chair of the National Political Congress of Black Women. Although everyone inside the GOP tent from Bob Dole to the Christian Coalition has been trying to ride the "values" bandwagon, that effort has apparently done little to close the 20-point gap which President Clinton appears to still enjoy in major polls. And Dole's own attacks on the Hollywood film industry appear gratuitous, especially since many "family films" which meet the approval of Washington value-czars are not exactly boxoffice hits. In June, Dole told Hollywood: "Give us art worthy of our lives, worthy of your own talents, and worthy of a country to which we all owe so much." He followed that up with another appeal, that the " 'R' in movies should stand for reject." But today, CNN notes: "Hollywood has turned out its fair share of family movies this year, however, and instead of flocking to them, moviegoers have rejected the very films politicians claim people so desperately want." They cite highly-touted films like"Flipper", "Adventures of Pinocchio, " and "A Little Princess"; instead, people flocked to action-offerings including "Independence Day" (which even candidate Dole sanctioned, and Empower America considered an example of cinematic patriotism) Another contradictory element in the GOP "family values" facade is the ironic support the party, and Mr. Dole, enjoy from a stable of Hollywood tough-guys whose violent cinematic stunts don't exactly play to a G-audience. Tonite, GOP Hollywood stalwart Charlton Heston is hosting an Arena Political Action Committee party at Planet Hollywood, the chic, place-to-seen restaurant chain owned by Republican boosters Sylvester Stallone and Arnold Schwarzenegger. The latter, of course, spoke at the 1992 convention and promised that Mr. Bush would be the "terminator" to Saddham Hussein (who apparently has had the last laugh on that count.) Karate-chopping Chuck Norris, another GOP'er is expected, although tough-guy Bruce Willis ("Die Hard"), who hosted a similar bash at the '92 GOP conclave, is out of town There's also wife Demi Moore, another heavy investor in Planet Hollywood, whose recent film Striptease didn't exactly draw accolades of approval from either Dole or Bill Bennet. *** ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: AAN#128 Date: Wed Aug 21 20:17:15 CDT 1996 Message number: 15 Reply to message number: unavailable nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnn AANEWS nnnnnnnnnn #128 uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu 8/13/96 (Afternoon Convention Update) http://www.atheists.org In This Issue... * Religion and Politics ARE Mixing in San Diego * Suit Challenges Mississippi Abortion Regulations * A Note To Readers * About This List... ''MANTLE OF RELIGION'' COVERS ALL PLAYERS AT GOP-FEST Is there ANYONE at the Republican National Convention who isn't religious, or at least is bold enough to stand firm as a secularist? We may end up asking that question when the Democratic convention rolls around, but for now -- in San Diego -- the answer seems to be a resounding "no". Starting on the anti-abortion fringe, Operation Rescue and other supporters of a Human Life Amendment have kicked off their efforts to shut down clinics and harass abortion providers in the San Diego area. A series of planned rallies began last Friday at the Operation Rescue headquarters, the Skyline Wesleyan Church in Lemon Grove. The speaker at Sunday's rally was Howard Phillips, a former conservative-GOP political operative who know heads the US Taxpayers Party, the group which was courting Pat Buchanan as a possible presidential nominee. (Buchanan has since called for a "truce" and thrown his support to Bob Dole). Phillips, of course, is well known to regular AANEWS readers as a Christian Reconstructionist and follower of theologian R.J. Rushdoony and his Chalcedon movement. Reconstructionist doctrine calls for the death penalty for homosexuals, adulterers, kids who talk back to parents, blasphemers and unfaithful women. Tonight, talk-show host Alan Keyes is expected to address the Operation Rescue rally. Keyes, a former official to the United Nations, was a favorite of some Christian conservatives during the primaries, but lagged far beyond Pat Buchanan. Tomorrow, Joseph Scheidler is scheduled. He is the author of "Closed: 99 Ways to Stop Abortion," a handbook quoted widely within the Operation Rescue movement, which advocates everything from leaving vicious messages on clinic answering machines to taking down license plate numbers of those enterring clinics. According to sociologist Sarah Diamond, author of "Spiritual Warfare: The Politics of the Christian Right," Scheidler seems "to relish the thought of inflicting physical pain on women having abortions (and) has also been charged with using the kind of inflammatory rhetoric that has inspired anti-abortion activists to firebomb clinics." Scheidler says that he has "understood the emotions that might prompt one to violence in an effort to end a greater violence (abortion)." His Pro-Life Action League has operated a litigation effort which tries to seek out women who have had medical complications following abortion procedures, and encourage them to file suit for damages against the clinic. Operation Rescue has also sent letters to San Diego area ministers and priests, declaring that: "Bill Clinton is not our Problem (sic), and Bob Dole is certainly not the solution. America doesn't need a new president, she needs to return to her true King, one called Jesus." The group also vows that: "Theology will become biography in the streets of San Diego. Every morning the Church of Jesus Christ will prayerfully, peaceably, and lovingly confront the abortion industry with the Gospel of the Kingdom." *** It's not just bible-clutching anti-abortionists, though, who are turning up the rhetorical steam valve in support of their cause. Alas, there is a pro-choice religious coalition which yesterday conducted its "Faithful Witness for Choice" at the Cathedral Church of St. Paul, followed by a march and rally at the convention "free speech zone" which has been established for different protest groups. The group says that it will "challenge the Christian Coalition's claim to speak for all religious Americans on the issue of abortion in the Republican party platform." For Atheists, of course, this raises the delightful question of just how effective "god" has been at revealing His "true doctrine" to humanity. The Cathedral of St. Paul has become the focal point for those more moderate types who wish to follow the example of their right-wing brethren, and drape themselves in the mantle of religious respectability. Woe be unto them who might choose to announce any form of religious skepticism or dis-belief! Indeed, in what the Cathedral described as "a first for a national political convention," the Episcopal Church scheduled "a round of events for delegates and others drawn here for the Republican National convention." Two services were held on Sunday which included a "Cathedral Forum...focusing on 'Faith and Politics'." A service that evening included Nathan Baxter, Dean of the National Cathedral, and Gen. Colin Powell. "Special invitations have been sent, on behalf of the Presiding Bishop, to all Republican Members of Congress, the California Legislature, and Governors." The fact that "moderate" elements within the Republican party feel compelled to so publicly affirm their religious sentiments is testament to the influence of more extreme groups (like the Christian Coalition) in effectively "religionizing" what should otherwise be a secular, political event accessible to a wide spectrum of Americans. It is all the more insulting when one considers that 10% of the population -- over 25,000,000 persons -- describe themselves as Atheists, agnostics, or skeptics of some sort on the question of religious belief. Indeed, there are tens of millions of additional citizens who are condescendingly branded with the pejorative label "un-churched" Americans, as if they have a form of social disease and are un-wholesome elements of the body politic. A Platform Plank to Ponder... Along with "abstinence" programs in school (the successor, it seems, to a bizarre and failed Reagan Administration scheme to have the government establish official "Chastity Centers" throughout the nation), the GOP platform also includes a curious proposal stating: "To reinforce our American heritage, we believe our nation's Governor's State legislators, and local school boards should support requiring our public schools to dedicate one full day each year solely to studying the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution." Teachers, parents and others might well applaud this recommendation, especially in light of the abysmal knowledge of both current affairs and history which some students tend to exhibit in our "dumbed-down" culture. But the platform was crafted by religious ideologues; and this particular plank has disturbing implications. AANEWS informed readers last week that one delegate heading for the convention -- and the Platform Committee -- was "Christian Revisionist" peddler David Barton, author of "The Myth of Separation" and other dubious materials. A recent edition of Church&State Magazine exposed the bogus or highly questionable quotes which Barton has attributed to historical figures such as Franklin, Madison and others, in supporting his contention that the United States was founded as a "Christian nation," and that state-church separation has no basis in either the major founding documents of the nation, or its early legal history. Critics have attacked Barton for egregious historical errors, but even an admission by WallBuilders -- the group which distributes Barton's tracts, books and videos -- that there are errors in the material has done little to blunt the popularity of his thesis in religious right circles. Indeed, considering the penchant of the Christian Coalition, Eagle Forum and other allied groups to run stealth candidates and "capture" local school boards, one must wonder exactly who will be crafting any program which has students studying documents like the Constitution. Another agenda lurking behind the GOP education planks -- such as one stating that children should "learn the three R's through proven methods" -- is the Parental Rights and Responsibilities Act, which has been a major objective for the Christian Coalition in its campaign to attack the public school curriculum. Indeed, "parental rights" coupled with Republican admonitions against "intrusive bureaucrats," is simply more ammunition in the religious war against teaching everything from human sexuality to even evolutionary theory in public schools. Groups such as Eagle Forum and Concerned Women for America (Beverly LaHaye) have drawn up lists with literally HUNDREDS of "objectionable" areas they encourage members to protest in school curriculums. It is no wonder that the Parental Rights and Responsibilities Act has been dubbed a "full employment act for lawyers" in light of the sheer volume of litigious action it could well stimulate. Many educators and scientists bemoan the fact that public school texts already "dumb down" or ignore areas such as evolution, for fear that religious parents will complain and even propose the teaching of creationism and other bogus religious doctrines in classes. *** MISSISSIPPI ANTI-ABORTION STATUTE IS CHALLENGED One technique which has been used by anti-abortion groups since the Roe. v. Wade decision has been to encourage statutes and regulations which make it difficult, if not impossible, to operate clinics. In Mississippi, two physicians and a pro-choice coalition today filed suit to enjoin state officials from enforcing a new Statute and Regulations which effectively over-regulate abortion providers. According to a dispatch from the American Civil Liberties Union, "Under the new laws, physicians who perform at least 10 abortions per month or simply advertise abortion services would be required to comply with dozens of burdensome requirements unsupported by any medical rationale." The regulations took effect yeaterday, and also ban new "abortion facilities" within 1500 feet of a church, school or kindergarten. (AANEWS readers may be reminded of a similar "drive 'em out of business" scheme which was recently enacted in Bavaria, Germany, which attempts to regulate physicians who earn more than 25% of their annual income through providing abortion services.) ACLU, which is representing the physicians and Pro-Choice Mississippi, added that the new laws "impose requirements far more stringent than those imposed on birthing centers, even though childbirth carriers a maternal death rate 10 times higher than abortion." *** A Note To AANEWS Readers... AANEWS has assembled a team to cover developments during the Republican National Convention which may of interest to Atheists and First Amendment activists. In addition to televised coverage of the San Diego gathering, we are also monitoring internet resources, reports and other other news sources. Any dispatches which have convention-related news will be appropriately labeled in the "subject" portion of your e-mail. While we apologize for any "glut" this may create in your mailboxes, we feel that this event deserves our coverage and attention. ** About This List... AANEWS is a free service from American Atheists, a nationwide movement founded by Madalyn Murray O'Hair for the advancement of Atheism, and the total, absolute separation of government and religion. For information about American Atheists, send mail to: info@atheists.org and include your name and postal address. You may forward, post or quote from this dispatch, provided that appropriate credit is given to AANEWS and American Atheists. For subscribe/unsubscribe information, send mail to aanews-request@listserv.atheists.org and put "info aanews" (minus the quotation marks) in the message body. Edted and written by Conradf F. Goeringer, The LISTMASTER. Internet Representative is Margie Wait, mdwait@atheists.org. ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: AAN#129 Date: Wed Aug 21 20:17:16 CDT 1996 Message number: 16 Reply to message number: unavailable nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnn AANEWS nnnnnnnnnn #129 uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu 8/14/96 (GOP Convention Report) http://www.atheists.org In This Issue... * GOP "In The Body Bag" for Ralph Reed, CC * You Pay For GOP Broadcast on Pat Robertson Channel * How You Can Help AANEWS * AACHAT * About This List... COALITION SAYS ''MISSION ACCOMPLISHED'' AT GOP CONVENTION It should be a heady day for Ralph Reed. As this dispatch from AANEWS is being sent, the Christian Coalition is just minutes away from kicking off its Faith at Freedom Celebration in San Diego's Balboa Park; and Reed, telegenic director of the religious right group, is expected to congratulate members and delegates for their role in dominating the nearby Republican convention, assuring an anti-choice slate of candidates and thoroughly squelching even a "tolerance" plank in the party platform. Mr. Reed, who once compared his group's "stealth tactics" by describing putting opponents in body bags, has reason to gloat. Meanwhile, there is plenty of news to report from the floor of the convention: * Since Sunday, televangelist and Coalition founder Pat Robertson has been working his crowd at the GOP fest. One salient quote provides insight into the peculiar notion Robertson seems to have about government and individual rights. He told one gathering: "I still want to see a day in America when government is a servant of the people, not the master. A day when little children are safe in their mothers' wombs." * Think again when you hear reports that VP hopeful Jack Kemp is really less adamant on certain social issues than Robertson & Vo. In 1988, Ralph Reed was tapped as a Kempt delegate, and Phyllis Schlafly of Eagle Forum was an "internal advisor" within the Kemp campaign organization. Some observers suggest that is typical of the splits, factions and personality differences which exist behind the scenes of what is often mistakenly presented as a monolithic, religious-right political machine. Recall, too, that Robertson and Kemp weren't on the best of terms in 1988, when both men were chasing the GOP presidential nod. Even so, Ralph Reed has told supporters: "Jack Kemp will be an asset to the ticket in that he is strongly pro-life and pro-family. He has never walked away from his defense of the innocent unborn." * Operation Rescue, the militant anti-abortion group which has vowed to "shut-down" clinics in San Diego for the duration of the GOP convention, has achieved a new low point of tastelessness and distortion. Guests filing into a GOP shindigs at Planet Hollywood and other venues are being greeted by Operation Rescue members holding 6- by 4-foot signs depicting aborted fetuses. Said one anti-choice militant, "A picture's worth 1,000 words." * Why the careful scripting at the podium by GOP spinmeisters? Even conservative pundit William Krisol of the The Weekly Standard says the stage performance aura of the convention reflects "a fear of 1992, a fear of Houston." He's referring, of course, to the "culture war" battle cry speech of Pat Buchanan, perhaps a defining moment in the last presidential contest which surely contributed to Clinton's victory that year. And speaking of Pat... * Buchanan may have a conciliatory hand out to Bob Dole, but reportedly his eye is on the year 2000. Some Buchanan strategists are already writing off the Dole-Kemp ticket, and are looking down the road well beyond "the truce of San Diego" to the millennium and another White House race Bill Clinton won't be able to win. Despite orders from Bay Buchanan, Pat's sister who orchestrates his campaign organization that delegates not walk out or boo during the keynote address by "one toke over the line" Rep. Susan Molinari, some camp followers did leave the convention hall. Others participated in "The Revolt of the White Hats," wearing conspicuous white, good-guy cowboy hats plastered with "Life of the Party" stickers. The most cranky delegates seem to have been Buchanan's Louisiana supporters; in that state's contest, Pat's brigade was accused of distributing anonymous and scurrilous flyers against candidate Phil Gramm, who "divorced a white woman and then married an Asian!" Why the bad blood about Dole and Kemp? Some Buchananites see Dole as a no-show at the White House in January; "Bob Dole can't beat Bill Clinton" was a favorite Buchanan campaign theme during the long months of primary battles. As for Kemp, "he's a big tenter, favoring tolerance of abortion-rights supporters," said one of Pat's Brigade. Kemp is also too much of a free market-NAFTA booster for the populists in Buchanan's ranks, and he opposes the anti-immigrant Prop 187. So, Buchanan & Co. are looking past November; by most accounts, they intend to stay within the GOP ranks although some may drift over to groups like Howard Phillip's US Taxpayers Party. * "Join Christian Coalition? Not!", says CNN, noting a lack of coordination between delegate camps loyal to Buchanan, and the stable of well-heeled operatives from the Christian Coalition. CNN says that "Some Buchananites are angry that Christian Coalition leaders, including Ralph Reed, in effect supported Dole in key primary states, such as South Carolina, and took votes away from Buchanan." In truth, many CC state organizations seemed to have thrown their support behind Phil Gramm, although there was considerable doubt in the Coalition hierarchy that the Texas Senator had legitimate Christian-conservative credentials. * Pat Robertson is looking past November as well. This is Robertson's convention as much as it is Dole's; Robertson's Family Channel network is being paid big bucks to carry the feed from the floor live each night. And behind the scenes, Robertson is just gushing over the exclusion of tolerance language from the party platform; he's also putting out feelers about George W. Bush, the Governor of Texas and the son of former President George H.W. Bush. "He would make a super president, he really would," extolled Robertson. "We'd just be thrilled to see somebody like that hit the ticket one of these days." * By the way, who's paying for all that air time on the Robertson network? You are... read on. *** TAXPAYERS PICK UP BROADCAST TAB ON ROBERTSON NET The incestuous relationship between the Republican Party and televangelist Pat Robertson is now being funded not by the "private sector" so lauded in the GOP platform, but by the good 'ol American taxpayer. In part, though, the Democrats are also to blame for this co-mingling of public monies and religious interests. Here's how the scheme works... Originally, GOP officials planned to use a $1.3 million donation from the Amway corporation to pay for airtime on Robertson's Family Channel. Amway has funded other Republican events, and for the television coverage the private company was intending to funnel money through the San Diego Convention and Visitors Bureau, which in turn was supposed to turn the funds over to Robertson in payment for the broadcast. The Los Angeles Times notes that "The scheme was believed to be the first time either party had tried to funnel corporate money to assist a convention through a local visitors bureau, which is a permanent entity separate from the host committee." Enter the Democratic Party, which then filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission which challenged the legality of the Amway donation, and charged that the Republicans were devising a new, improper scheme to circumvent election regulations. While objecting to the Amway funds, though, the Democrats saw nothing wrong with the GOP using PUBLIC monies to buy air time, even if it was from the likes of Pat Robertson. That's because Republicans and Democrats are receiving $12 million each in public funds to support their respective conventions. (That law was instituted to supposedly wean parties from big corporate donors and influence; but expect cries from both sides of the congressional aisle for that figure to be raised, since this year private donations are expected to outstrip even those huge public money allotments.) When public funding of political campaigns was first proposed, no one considered even the possibility of a First Amendment state-church separation problem. That was 1974, though; since then, televangelists like Robertson have thrived, and his Christian Broadcasting Network reaches tens-of-millions of homes through cable networks. The Family Channel is just one of the assets in Robertson's media portfolio; it relationship with the GOP convention is a "synergistic" one (to coin a Disney-Time-Warner phrase), but with the taxpayer picking up the bill. * Yesterday's afternoon AANEWS dispatch informed readers about Phyllis Schlafly's "Whale of a Party" schmoozefest, considered THE social soiree for the right-to-life crowd. We though you'd like to know -- tickets to the event sold out at $85 a head, but we have no reports yet of scalper activity. * HOTWIRED's Brock Meeks is on the floor of the GOP convention, and today is comparing the scripted performances of speakers to an affair being run by Disney. The micromanagement is so intense, says Meeks, that it transcends volatile issues like a tolerance statement of the handling of dissent in the ranks, and goes all the way down to a carefully designed dress code for delegates. A dress code? "Delegates have been told not to wear white shirts, because they could look yellow on TV; don't wear stripes because it makes you look fat; and, of course, no inappropriate scratching of private parts because those damn CNN cameras are everywhere." Meeks adds that the Kansas delegation was given special attention, since they have the best "and therefore most photogenic" seats in the convention hall. You can check out the rant at http://www.hotwired/com under the "Netizen" column. We don't know if he's serious, but if this is true, we can only wonder what happened to Colin Powell's Big Tent. * Even some delegates can't help but notice the superb organizational over-kill by Ralph Reed and the Christian Coalition. Indeed, in some parts of the convention hall like the area occupied by the Washington state delegation, the Coalition membership has effectively replaced the state party ranks. David Welch, the Washington head of the CC, is also chair of the delegation. Notes the Seattle Times: "Welch and the Christian Coalition organized the delegation, not GOP Chairman Ken Eikenberry, who was rejected as a delegate to the convention." Reporter David Postman adds that in San Diego, "...as it stands now, the Christian Coalition is in charge." *** HOW YOU CAN SUPPORT AND HELP AANEWS In "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress," sci-fi writer Robert Heinlein created the acronym TANSTAAFL -- "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch!" That's certain true on the moon, and just about anywhere on the face of the earth. Somebody has to pay. With nearly 1,000 subscribers -- and growing -- AANEWS has received a steady stream of inquires asking how people can help out. * Consider joining American Atheists. Just send mail to info@atheists.org, and include your name and postal address. You'll receive a complete information/membership packet. * Write for a catalogue of American Atheist Press books and other materials. Write to catalogue@atheists.org, with your name and postal address. * Make a contribution to American Atheists. *** INTERESTED IN MEETING OTHER ATHEISTS/ One way to interact with other non-believers is to join American Atheists, and then participate in our moderated discussion group called AACHAT. If you are a member, just contact Margie Wait through aachat@atheists.org. * About This List... AANEWS is a free service from American Atheists, a nationwide movement founded by Madalyn Murray O'Hair for the advancement of Atheism, and the total, absolute separation of government and religion. You may forward, post or quote from this dispatch, provided that appropriate credit is given to AANEWS and American Atheists. For subscribe/unsubscribe information, write to aanews-request@listserv.atheists.org and put "info aanews" (minus the quotation marks, please!) in the message body. Edited and written by Conrad F. Goeringer, The LISTMASTER. Internet Representative is Margie Wait (irep@atheists.org). ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: ACLU 8-12-96 Date: Wed Aug 21 20:17:18 CDT 1996 Message number: 17 Reply to message number: unavailable ---------------------------------------------------------------- 08-12-96 ACLU Newsfeed -- ACLU News Direct to YOU ---------------------------------------------------------------- TODAY'S NEWS: Sender: owner-news@aclu.org Precedence: bulk * ACLU Seeks Injunction in Federal Court To Block Mississippi Abortion Statute * Court Orders City to Pay ACLU Attorney's Fees In Cincinnati Fountain Square Cross Case * Washington State Attorney General Nixes Graduation Prayer * Children of Illegal Immigrants Should Not Be Citizens, Republicans Say * Chain-Gang Stun Belts Shock Rights Groups * English-Only Measure Passes House * Sign of Victory: Michigan Judge Blocks Yard-Sign Limits ---------------------------------------------------------------- ACLU Seeks Injunction in Federal Court To Block Mississippi Abortion Statute FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Monday, August 12, 1996 JACKSON, MS -- A Mississippi pro-choice coalition and two physicians filed a lawsuit today to stop state officials from enforcing a new Statute and Regulations that threaten women's health and safety and violate a number of constitutional guarantees, including the right to choose abortion. Under the new laws, physicians who perform at least 10 abortions per month or simply advertise abortion services would be required to comply with dozens of burdensome requirements unsupported by any medical rationale. The Statute and Regulations, which are scheduled to take effect on August 12, also ban new "abortion facilities" within 1500 feet of a church, school, or kindergarten. "The new Statute and Regulations have no legitimate medical or public health purpose whatsoever," said Deborah Goldberg, co-counsel with the ACLU for the plaintiffs in the case. "In enacting these measures, the state legislature's only intent was to make Mississippi's handful of abortion providers close their doors permanently." "Imposing unnecessary abortion regulations is the latest tactic of anti-choice organizations and legislators," said Louise Melling, Acting Director of Litigation for the national ACLU Reproductive Freedom Project. "Unable to outlaw abortion directly, they seek instead to make the procedure inaccessible by requiring providers to conform to irrational and prohibitively burdensome regulations." The Regulations in Mississippi depart from accepted medical standards in many ways: They subject physicians who perform abortions to regulations required of "mini-hospitals," but not of physicians who perform other outpatient surgery. The new laws, for example, impose requirements far more stringent than those imposed on birthing centers, even though childbirth carries a maternal death rate 10 times higher than abortion. They require abortion facilities to comply with physical plant, equipment, personnel, and paperwork requirements that bear no reasonable relation to the health or safety of women seeking abortions. These extensive, costly requirements are wholly unjustified given that the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists recognizes that first-trimester and early second-trimester abortions may be safely performed on an outpatient basis in a physician's office. In another inexplicable departure from accepted medical standards, the Regulations exclude two procedures for terminating a pregnancy -- medical abortion and dilatation and evacuation -- from the list of authorized methods for abortion. The Mississippi Regulations also fail to protect patient confidentiality, instead allowing state inspectors access to all of the medical records of a licensed facility at any time and authorizing public disclosure of patient identities in licensing proceedings. Physicians who fail to comply with the Statute and Regulations are subject to criminal prosecution, fines, and loss of their license to operate as abortion facilities. "These Regulations would have a devastating impact on women in a state where abortion services are already extremely difficult to obtain," said David Ingebretsen, Executive Director of the ACLU of Mississippi. "Our state has long had some of the nation's harshest abortion restrictions, including a two-parent consent law for teenagers and a mandatory waiting period, and these new measures would further constrict the options for pregnant women." Mississippi, which has one of the highest teen birthrates in the country, has only 1.3 abortion providers for each 100,000 women aged 15-44, as compared with the national average of 4.0. The average woman in Mississippi has to travel at least 50 miles to obtain an abortion. "These new Regulations would cause longer delays, greater travel time, and higher costs for women seeking abortions. Many women would not be able to overcome the obstacles and would be forced to carry unwanted pregnancies to term," said Ingebretsen. "The Regulations have numerous constitutional flaws," Goldberg said. By forcing some providers to cease offering abortions and others to raise their prices, the new Regulations impermissibly impose an undue burden on the right of Mississippi women to obtain an abortion, she explained. "The Regulations also violate the informational privacy rights of patients, which is particularly disturbing in a state like Mississippi that has had a high incidence of harassment against reproductive health clinics and their patients," Goldberg said. In addition, they violate the First Amendment rights of abortion providers by penalizing speech that communicates the availability of abortion services, and they infringe upon the plaintiffs' rights to equal protection and to due process, she added. Plaintiffs in the case -- Pro-Choice Mississippi, Herbert H. Hicks, M.D., and Joseph Booker, M.D. -- are represented by Deborah Goldberg, Lawrence R. Miller, and David Futterman of Arnold & Porter as co-counsel with the ACLU; Jackson attorney Robert McDuff as cooperating counsel for the ACLU of Mississippi; and Louise Melling and Lisa Landau of the ACLU Reproductive Freedom Project. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Court Orders City to Pay ACLU Attorney's Fees In Cincinnati Fountain Square Cross Case FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Thursday, August 8, 1996 United States District Judge Sandra Beckwith yesterday afternoon ordered the City of Cincinnati to pay $46,728.48 as the attorney's fees of the American Civil Liberties Union of Ohio in the lawsuit challenging the City's unconstitutional "fighting words" ordinance. The City enacted the ordinance in October 1993 in an attempt to keep the Ku Klux Klan and other groups the City finds too controversial from exercising their First Amendment rights. This was the City's third trip to federal court in as many years to justify its Fountain Square speech regulations. The late Judge Carl B. Rubin granted the plaintiffs' request for a preliminary injunction in December 1993. His 1994 summary judgment order in the plaintiffs' favor was upheld by the United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit in December 1995. Scott Greenwood, the ACLU cooperating attorney who handled the case, captioned Knight Riders of the Ku Klux Klan v. City of Cincinnati, said, "We are delighted with this First Amendment victory. It affirms that the government may not intentionally violate the First Amendment rights of anyone, and that to do so will be very expensive." Greenwood added, "The City's actions threatened the constitutional rights of all Cincinnatians. When government decides what speech is appropriate, and what symbols like the cross mean, it insults its citizens. The people of Cincinnati are able to make up their own minds about what a Klan cross means. They don't need a paternalistic City Council to do it for them." Greenwood explained that all fees in the case will go to the ACLU of Ohio, which will use them to fund future litigation to protect the Bill of Rights, and that the Klan will not receive any of the fees awarded. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Washington State Attorney General Nixes Graduation Prayer The Washington Attorney General's Office has issued a ruling that officially sponsored prayer at public high school graduation ceremonies is unconstitutional. Attorney General Christine Gregoire said the ruling was based on her office's analysis of decisions from federal courts regarding public prayer at commencement activities. Attorney General opinions provide advice to the Legislature and state officials and traditionally have been accorded great weight by the Washington State Supreme Court in interpreting state law. The Attorney General's finding came in response to a request from three state legislators from the Shelton area in southwest Washington. In March, at the urging of the ACLU of Washington, the Shelton School Board had ended a policy allowing graduation prayer. The previous year the school board in the nearby town of Elma had also changed its policy to disallow officially sponsored prayer, despite heavy lobbying by the Christian Coalition. In 1991, in an ACLU-W case brought on behalf of a Baptist and an atheist, a state superior court judge ruled that a planned nondenominational invocation at the graduation of Yelm High School, also in southwest Washington, violated the state constitution. The AG's Office noted that the state constitution is even stricter than the federal in its prohibition of government support for religion. Article I, Section 11 of the Washington Constitution states, "No public money or property shall be appropriated for or applied to any religious worship, exercise or instruction, or the support of any religious establishment ..." The ACLU of Washington hailed the ruling. "The Attorney General's opinion is right on the mark. Public schools can't impose religious practices on audiences at graduation. But individual students certainly have the right to pray in a non-disruptive manner, and religious groups .can always organize private, unofficial ceremonies to honor graduates," said Doug Honig, Public Education Director for the ACLU-W. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Children of Illegal Immigrants Should Not Be Citizens, Republicans Say SAN DIEGO -- "Under the Constitution, anyone born on American soil is automatically entitled to citizenship," The New York Times reminded its readership today. But twenty five members of this year's Republican Platform Committee disregarded this key tenet in drafting the party's immigration plank. A constitutional amendment that would deny U.S. citizenship to children born here to illegal immigrants is being spearheaded by Rep. Bill McCollum, Republican of Florida, one of the members of the subcommittee on individual rights in charge of immigration issues for Republican Party platform. The amendment, McCollum said, would cure illegal immigrants of their habit of "coming across the border just to have children." The ACLU warned that in drafting this amendment, the subcommittee members would gut the Fourteenth Amendment, and violate the Constitution's equal protection clause. Gregory T. Nojeim, a legislative counsel for the ACLU Washington National Office, also said that the amendment would represent an unprecedented intolerance of immigration. "This extreme proposal is an explicit repudiation of America's proud immigrant tradition," Nojeim said. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Chain-Gang Stun Belts Shock Rights Groups CHICAGO -- U.S. prison officials say electronic stun belts capable of knocking out an inmate may be used to control chain gangs of the future, a concept that human rights groups argue is a form of torture, Reuters reports. Experts in the burgeoning incarceration industry believe the belts, which pack a 45,000-volt charge that can render a man unconscious, are an effective, even humane, method of controlling dangerous convicts. ``It doesn't hurt that bad and doesn't cause any serious damage or injury, and it certainly gets people's attention,'' Gene Atherton, a Department of Corrections security specialist in Colorado, first of 18 states to get the belts, told Reuters. Prison guards and police around the world use stun guns or stun riot shields that deliver a similar charge. So far, law enforcement authorities have used the thick nylon stun belts manufactured by Stun-Tech Inc. of Cleveland only when transporting especially dangerous or violent prisoners, or occasionally during courtroom appearances. But Wisconsin's legislature recently approved the use of belts on prison work crews, and corrections officials said electronic chain gangs may be deployed along roads next year. Alabama last year ended a six-month experiment with chain gangs, a practice discontinued since the 1960s, because of security concerns after one inmate being unshackled from a group of five assaulted another and was shot by a guard. Alabama also weathered criticism that focused on the image of rock-breaking prisoners linked together by a heavy chain. ``Amnesty International is not opposed to prisoners working but the way chain gangs are administered is psychological torture where they are chained together and put out in public,'' Michael Heflin, regional director of the human rights group in Madison, Wisconsin, told Reuter. ``All the punitive, degrading and dehumanizing things you're doing to prison inmates, and then these people are going to be put back in society,'' noted Christopher Ahmuty, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union in Wisconsin. The $600 belt's charge is delivered at low amperage, which the device's manufacturer said insures no permanent injury. "It causes the muscles to tighten up and then relax. The wave form that it generates causes the glucose to change to lactic acid very quickly and drains the body of energy,'' Stun-Tech president Dennis Kaufman said. "It's almost like going to sleep,'' Colorado's Atherton said, adding that until recently prison guard trainees were given the shocks themselves to comprehend its force. ---------------------------------------------------------------- English-Only Measure Passes House WASHINGTON -- When the U.S. government speaks, it must speak only in English, the House of Representatives voted Thursday. After rancorous debate about the credentials of citizenship, the virtues of the melting pot, and the promise of Lady Liberty's lamp, the House voted 259-169 to make English the official language of the United States government, the San Jose Mercury News reports. "This is the land of opportunity and the language of the land of opportunity is English,'' said Rep. Gerald Solomon, R-N.Y. The bill, whose critics say will be easily derailed in the Senate, would require most official government documents be printed in English. It would allow, but not require, states to stop printing bilingual ballots, the News said. Many Democrats called the bill unneeded, unconstitutional, insulting and divisive. "This is a solution in search of a problem,'' said Rep. Gene Green, D-Tex. The measure means things like U.S. tax forms, congressional correspondence, and information about how to get Social Security would be printed only in English. It would not affect the U.S. Census count which is conducted every decade. But since states have the right to make their own rules about government communication, it is not immediately clear how much or how soon ordinary citizens would notice the change. The American Civil Liberties Union said it was outraged that the House voted to repeal a key portion of the Voting Rights Act that requires areas with large non-English speaking populations provide bilingual ballots. ``The English-only bill is more than divisive,'' Gregory Nojeim, an ACLU national legislative counsel, told the News. ``It is a wink from Congress that it will tolerate discriminatory practices against language-minority residents of the United States who pay their taxes and fight our wars.'' ---------------------------------------------------------------- Sign of Victory: Michigan Judge Blocks Yard-Sign Limits DETROIT -- A federal judge struck down a Warren city ordinance regulating election placards and other yard signs, ruling Wednesday that the law unduly restricted home owners' rights to political speech, the Detroit Free Press reports. The ordinance attempted to regulate lawn signs by limiting the size, number of signs per lawn and the number of days they can be displayed. The ordinance said signs could not be displayed earlier than 45 days before an election. Each candidate was also limited to one sign per yard. If charged, violators could have faced up to 90 days in jail and up to a $500 fine. U.S. District Judge Anna Diggs Taylor sided with opponents of the ordinance, who argued that it treated political signs differently from nonpolitical ones. "We are hopeful that Warren will go back to the drawing board and consider a more carefully drafted ordinance that respects the rights of Warren citizens to freely express themselves," said American Civil Liberties Union attorney Michael Haddad. He successfully argued the case on behalf of eight plaintiffs, including several formal City Council candidates and a current councilman. "This is a victory for free speech," said Paul Denenfeld, legal director of the ACLU's Michigan chapter. "Yard signs are the most common way for people to express themselves during an election." Some say the sign ordinance sought to deny political candidates, particularly those challenging incumbents, the means to adequately advertise their candidacies. Lawn signs are cheaper than advertising in newspapers, radio and television, the ACLU's Denenfeld noted. Wednesday's ruling could end long-standing riffs caused by the ordinance -- or could extend the issue if it's appealed. City leaders also could impose sweeping restrictions on all lawn signs, including signs that advertise real estate and garage sales. Jim Fouts, a City Council representative, said he was unsure what the city's next move would be. "If the judge said the ordinance is unconstitutional, then it's unconstitutional," said Fouts. "I don't think it's in the city's best interest to be fighting a losing battle." ---------------------------------------------------------------- ONLINE RESOURCES FROM THE ACLU NATIONAL OFFICE ---------------------------------------------------------------- ACLU Freedom Network Web Page: http://www.aclu.org. America Online users should check out our live chats, auditorium events, *very* active message boards, and complete news on civil liberties, at keyword ACLU. ---------------------------------------------------------------- ACLU Newsfeed American Civil Liberties Union National Office 132 West 43rd Street New York, New York 10036 To subscribe to the ACLU Newsfeed, send a message to majordomo@aclu.org with "subscribe News" in the body of the message. To terminate your subscription, send a message to majordomo@aclu.org with "unsubscribe News" in the body of the message. For general information about the ACLU, write to info@aclu.org. ---------------------------------------------------------------- ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: AAN#130 Date: Thu Aug 22 18:02:24 CDT 1996 Message number: 18 Reply to message number: unavailable nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnn AANEWS nnnnnnnnnn # 130 uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu 8/14/96 (Afternoon Edition ~ Part One) In This Issue... * Graduates Won't Have A Prayer In Washington State * "Cyber-Guilt", "Cyber-Salvation" * Life On Mars? An Interview With Frank Zindler (Part One) WASHINGTON STATE TURNS DOWN GRADUATION PRAYER In Washington state, the Attorney General's office has informed legislators that any officially sponsored prayer at public high school graduation ceremonies is unconstitutional. According to AG Christine Gregoire, that information is based on her office's analysis of federal court rulings about prayer and other religious activities during graduation events. She noted that her office had received inquiries from state legislators in southwest Washington; there, a school board in Shelton finally ended a policy of graduation prayer at the urging of the American Civil Liberties Union. In 1991, the prayer was challenged, and a superior court ruled that even a "nondenominational" invocation at Yelm High School was a violation of the First Amendment. Groups like the Christian Coalition have been promoting school prayer throughout the state. But the Washington State Constitution is clear in drawing the line between religious exercise and the establishment of religious ritual. Article 1, Section 11 of that state's Constitution declares, "No public money or property shall be appropriated for or applied to any religious worship, exercise or instruction, or the support of any religious establishment..." *** ROMAN CATHOLICS STILL DON'T WANT ''CYBER-SALVATION'' In 1970, a young producer named George Lucas -- who in just a few years would bring viewers the famous Star Wars Trilogy -- adapted a short piece he had made while a University student into his first full-length motion picture which he titled "THX-1138." This sci-fi production depicted a dystopian future where society had outlawed sex and used drugs to control and manipulate the population. In one bizarre scene, a man known only as THX-1138 who has stopped taking the drugs, seeks comfort from the agonizing symptoms of withdrawal by going into a computerized "confession booth" where he hears the mind-numbing platitudes of a video-priest. Absurd? Maybe not, at least for a group in Cologne, Germany known as the Lazarus Society. The group is marketing a "Confession by Computer" program on disc, which allows sinners to choose from a list of 200 sins. According to Reuter news service, the promotional literature informs users: "As soon as the sin is selected on the basis of the Ten Commandments, the computer searches out an appropriate penance," which includes an on-screen or audio presentation of prayers like the "Our Father" and "Hail Mary." The developer of the "Confession by Computer" disc is quite serious about the project, and insists that it was developed "with the help of theologians." The program also offers what might be termed theological plug-ins, such as a selection of different prayers and texts of Protestant and Catholic versions of the mass. The General Conference of Bishops, though, doesn't approve of the cyber-salvation disc which sells for the equivalent of about $52. A spokesman told Reuter that "This does not conform to the Catholic understanding of confession," adding that "You cannot have sins forgiven by the push of a button." Well, not yet anyway! Indeed, the metaphysical and religious implications of the "Confession by Computer" disc are fascinating. Televangelists for years have claimed that they can send "healing powers" presumably through the airwaves and cable systems to their viewers, or even read their thoughts and needs. ("I see a woman in Des Moines who's plagued with Arthur-Itis!!! Send a donation! Be Heeeealed!!!) And the Pope has "blessed" audiences over the television when there are over-flow crowds who are hearded into auditoriums to watch papal spectacles on the tube. The "technology interface" between blesser-and-blessee may not be that tenuous. The fact that this idea is even seriously proposed shows not only how life immitates fiction, but how serious theology can even imitate humor and jest. Several years ago, the American Atheists chapter in San Diego supplemented its cable TV program with a series of "spoof" ads, one of which advertised the "Sin Card -- Never Leave Home Without It." The "Sin Card" automatically deducted monies from a "sinner's" account in the course of a month, presumably as penalty for transgressions. Computerized confession and salvation -- or even confession-salvation in the flesh -- isn't that great a "leap of faith" for credulous believers! ** LIFE ON MARS? AN INTERVIEW WITH FRANK ZINDLER Ever since word was released by NASA that a team of scientists had found compelling evidence for the existence of life on Mars in the remains of the Allan Hills 84001 meteorite sample, social commentators and theologians have been debating the implications of this for human culture. The religious response to the discovery has been mixed: fundamentalists have tended to reject the claim, while other religious groups such as Roman Catholics and Muslims have proven more receptive. But how good is the evidence of fossil remains? We put that that question, and others, to American Atheists Science Advisor Frank Zindler, a nationally-known expert and spokesman in the creationism-evolution debate. Mr. Zindler also serves as Editor of the American Atheist Magazine and Newsletter, and is the new Director of American Atheist Press. ---- AANEWS: Based on what you've learned so far, how good is the evidence for fossil remains from Mars in this piece of meteoritic material? ZINDLER: It's problematic at several levels. Perhaps the weakest link in my mind, is the proof that the meteorite did in fact come from Mars. Although the micropaleontologist William Schopf -- overall a skeptic on the Martian fossil question -- rated the probability of this as being 9 on a scale of 10, I'm less sanguine. I do not remember clearly what the evidence for this was when the paper(s) came out in SCIENCE several years ago. I remember only that I was not fully convinced of the Martian provenience after reading about the Antarctic meteorites. In general, the evidence would have to be an isotopic "signature" of some sort that would be reliable planet-wide. Certainly, rocks differ in their isotopic compositions from one place to another on earth, and so it should be on Mars also. The possibility that small volumes of Martian atmosphere became trapped in the meteorite and were brought to earth cannot be ruled out, however; and it could supposed than an atmopsheric isotopic signature WOULD be valid for an entire planet unless one were sampling volcanic out-gasing plumes! It's reported that there are indeed atmospheric gases trapped inside ALH84001, and that they match those sampled in the Martian atmosphere in 1976. We must suppose that the Martian atmosphere evolves and that its isotopic signature has changed over billions of years. Whether it changes significantly over millions of years, however, is unclear, and it is possible that 15 or 16 million years ago (when the meteorite is supposed to have been blasted off the surface of The Red Planet) the atmosphere was substantially the same as it is today. When atmospheric gases become trapped in the rock, however, is unclear and it could be a holdover from truly primal times. If so, I would take that as evidence AGAINST the Martian provenience of our specimen. That is, although some other place may have had an atmosphere billions of years ago resembling the current atmosphere of Mars, because Mars' atmosphere must have evolved greatly over the eons, its ancient atmosphere must have been different from the current one. You also have to remember that once upon a time Mars had quite a lot of water. Where did it go? While some may have become trapped beneath the Martian crust and under the dri-ice icecap, most of it has been lost, I believe, by photolysis of waster molecules in the upper atmosphere of the planet. Because Mars is so much smaller than Earth, its gravitational strength is much less, and hydrogen is more easily lost from the planet. So, when water is broken up into hydrogen and oxygen, the hydrogen flies off into space, leaving the oxygen to diffuse down to the planet's surface to oxidize the minerals thereon. As water has disappeared from Mars, the planet has progressively rused. So much oxygen has been produced over the eons that the planet has not just been oxidized, it's been peroxidized. All this can be taken to indicate that the present hostile environment of Mars is probably not representative of the earlier history of the planet, when it much have been much more hospitable to the presence of life. The presence of organic chemicals in the meteorite isn't very convincing to me, since all the substances found have been found in other meteorites and can be considered primordial chemicals rather than the products of living systems. But at the same time, I must admit that the COMBINATION of the various chemicals and minerals is highly suggestive of a biotic origin. The one nagging doubt I have in this area springs from the fact that so far I have seen no evidence that the surface on which the alleged microbes have been found shows any signs of weathering. How microbes could live on a surface without that surface underoing changes recognizable as weather is a question needing to be answered. Finally, pseudofossils are very well known here on earth, and are the bane of every beginning geologist and every practicing creationist. I have found mineral formations that looked incredibly similar to certain types or corals. But it has been shown conclusively that these objects are not of biotic origin. I've also found concretions that looked like giant doughnuts, hammerheads, and the coastal outline of Antarctica. Creationists find "human footprints" and other fanciful objects formed in stone. And there's the infamous Eozoon canadense -- an alleged microfossil that fooled people for so long that when it was shown not be a real fossil it became almost impossible for anyone to believe that the real microfossils found by William Schopf and others were in fact genuine. While the Mars "microbes" are indeed suggestive of fossil life, cross-sections must be obtained to see if there is any internal structure that can corroborate the external evidence. (To Be Continued... End Of Part One) *** AANEWS is a free service from American Atheists, a nationwide movement founded by Madalyn Murray O'Hair for the advancement of Atheism, and the total, absolute separation of government and religion. For more information about American Atheists, send e-mail to info@atheists.org, and include your name and postal address. You may forward, post or quote from this dispatch, provided that appropriate credit is given to AANEWS and American Atheists. For subscribe/unsubscribe information, send mail to: aanews-request@listserv.atheists.org and put "info aanews" in the message body, minus the quotation marks. Edited and written by Conrad F. Goeringer, The LISTMASTER. ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: AAN#131 Date: Thu Aug 22 18:02:25 CDT 1996 Message number: 19 Reply to message number: unavailable nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnn AANEWS nnnnnnnnnn #131 uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu 8/14/96 (Afternoon Edition ~ Part Two) http://www.atheists.org In This Issue... * Life On Mars: An Interview With Frank Zindler LIFE ON MARS? AN INTERVIEW WITH FRANK ZINDLER (Part Two) (Note from the editor: We continue our discussion of possible life on the planet Mars with American Atheists Editor and Science Adviser Frank Zindler...) AANEWS: Do you think that the NASA/Stanford team exercised good judgment in choosing to make the announcement of their alleged finding through a press conference, before their case was presented in SCIENCE? ZINDLER: It is my understanding that the NASA team held a press conference to announce their findings because word was leaking out before their papers could be published. I see nothing wrong with this, since their work had already been refereed by a prestigious journal and was just about to come out. It's not as though their ONLY presentation was the press conference. It seems quite different, say, than the case of "cold fusion." AANEWS: There has been a wide range of reaction to the announcement from different religious groups. Does this surprise you? ZINDLER: No. Naturally, the less educated, fundamentalist groups are denying the whole affair. Their reading of the Bible makes it clear that the earth is the center of the universe, and only here can there be life. Angels are living forms too, but they don't fossilize! The more sophisticated religionists, however, the types that think they can reconcile Christianity with the reality of evolution (i.e. theistic evolutionists) may be accepting the putative Martian fossils as "just more evidence of the glory of God." AANEWS: Fundamentalists seem to have a problem with even the possibility of relatively unsophisticated lifeforms on another planet, let alone intelligent, advanced life. What biblical sources do they base this attitude on? ZINDLER: Fundamentalists can't allow life elsewhere in the universe for the simple reason that the creation stories in the first two chapters of Genesis indicate that the objects above the earth, like the "firmament" and "great lights" were put there solely for the sake of man, and perhaps woman. "For times and for seasons" the stars were zapped into the underbelly of the solid sky. If the stars -- including planets in biblical understanding -- were put up there for us, how could they have anything living out a purpose separate from ours? Ergo, there cannot be life on other worlds. AANEWS: "Scientific" creationist arguments a la Gish have not done very well in refuting the vast body of evidence on behalf of evolutionary mechanisms. From what you've seen about the Allan Hills 84001 meteoritic specimen, might they have a bit more success in trying to undermine claims about possible life on Mars? ZINDLER: I think the creationists will have no trouble obfuscating the Martian studies and their findings. Only after we can return to Mars and dig deep beneath the peroxides to retrieve material resembling the present meteorite could we hope to produce evidence solid enough that the creationists would be seriously discomfited thereby. AANEWS: Some scientists are just gushing over this find. Carl Sagan calls it "evocative and very excitinhg." Do you think he's over reacting? ZINDLER: My understanding is that Sagan was initially very skeptical about this case. The "evocative and very exciting" I though was just a trailer comment made after he had expressed all his doubts. Certainly I too can say the same thing. AANEWS: Even if other specimens of ejected Martian materials show more promising evidence of life, we're still not talking about "ET" and "Independence Day." ZINDLER: Indeed, we are not talking about any likelihood of sentient life-forms on Mars. If my model of the evolution of the Martian atmosphere is at all correct, the planet would have become inhospitable for life long before microbes could have evolved into multicellular, sentient forms. On earth, for instance, single-celled life existed for at least 2.5 billion years before multicellular forms appeared. While we should not expect evolution on other planets to imitate that on earth in any particulars, overall, it's unreasonable to suppose that intelligent life could have evolved on Mars during the short wndow of time I believe was available. AANEWS: Some religious groups -- Muslims, even a few Catholic theologians -- see no conflict with the prospect of even advanced life elsewhere. How would you account for the differences in their reactions with, say, those of Jerry Falwell? ZINDLER: Well, the Muslims have the "Lord of the Worlds" in their Koran and that would actually require other inhabited places -- all of course being ruled by our own Allah. Allah akbar, after all! The Catholics, on the other hand, have learned through long years of fighting science how to adapt to science and incorporate it. They've learned to use the scientific technology of the twentieth century c.e. such as communications satellites, to broadcast the idealogy of the twentieth century B.C.E.! The secret, of course, is to set words loose from precise definitions. By "morphing" language sufficiently, they can accomodate anything. The same is true of liberal Protestant groups. AANEWS: People are pretty excited about even this tenuous evidence for extraterrestrial life. Would clear evidence of such life really have such a profound effect on human culture as some suggest? ZINDLER: While the discovery of life on Mars SHOULD have a prfound effect, I doubt that such will in fact be the case. The discovery that the earth is not the center f the universe should have had such an effect. But despite the claims of some scholars that that did shake our species out of its dogmatic slumber, I'm hard pressed to find any evidence that more than a small percentage of our kind have been awakened by this stimulus. Recent surveys show that roughly one out of five Americans is unaware that the earth goes around the sun. AANEWS: Let's muse a bit. If we DID encounter an advanced alien civilization, would their attitudes toward a "god" have anything to do with how our culture would react? In other words, if we encountered religious aliens of any kind, would worldly religions see that as confirmation, perhaps, of their own doctrines? ZINDLER: If there were aliens and if they too believed in "god," that certainly would give a boost to supernaturalist forces here on earth. If there were aliens and if they didn't believe in gods, they probably would just be identified as "tools of Satan" or some other thing. Probably predicted precisely in the Book of Daniel or the third chapter of Revelation. AANEWS: Any other thoughts on this admitted out-of-this-world matter? ZINDLER: Well, I don't think Atheists are going to be able to get as much mileage out of this as might be hoped. First of all, there is the reasonable worry that the evidence is not sufficient for proof. Secondly, even if it should prove to be sufficient for proof, there is the resilience of religionists alluded to a moment ago. Some Fundies might give up their faith in the face of forefully presented argumentation and evidence. But the religious liberals will continue to be unfazed. We might as well box with marshallows, or hot-nail jello to the ceiling! *** INTERESTED IN MEETING OTHER ATHEISTS? One way to interact with other non-believers is to join American Atheists, and then participate in our moderated discussion group called AACHAT. If you are a member, just contact Margie Wait through aachat@atheists.org * About This List... AANEWS is a free service from American Atheists, a nationwide movement founded by Madalyn Murray O'Hair for the advancement of Atheism, and the total, absolute separation of government and religion. For information about American Atheists, send mail to info@atheists.org, and include your name and postal address. You may forward, post or quote from this dispatch, provided that appropriate credit is given to AANEWS and American Atheists. For subscribe/unsubscribe information, write to aanews-request@listserv.atheists.org and put "info aanews" (minus the quotation marks, please!) in the message body. Edited and written by Conrad F. Goeringer, The LISTMASTER. Internet Representative is Margie Wait (irep@atheists.org). ... Good printers do it without wrinkling the sheets. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: AAN#132 Date: Thu Aug 22 18:02:26 CDT 1996 Message number: 20 Reply to message number: unavailable nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnn AANEWS nnnnnnnnnn # 132 uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu8/15/96 http://www.atheists.org * Convention Hype, Image Upsetting Some Delegates * Roswell "UFO" Material From Earth, Says Los Alamos Scientist * Florida: Where Prayer Really Isn't Prayer * About This List... A DOLE-KEMP TICKET, BUT A BUCHANAN PLATFORM... Some Delegrates Grumble At "Moderated" Image On TV Tonight could well include the most important forty minutes in Bob Dole's political career. The 35-year veteran of Washington partisan turf wars is scheduled to accept his party's nomination in an address which is all part of a carefully scripted, Republican convention. Dole's handlers are buoyed by evidence that the ticket is finally getting its media-generated "bounce," thanks in part to the addition of former Congressman Jack Kemp in the VP slot. But there is some grumbling in religious conservative ranks underscoring a tactical split between Ralph Reed of the Christian Coalition and more zealous delegates tied to the Pat Buchanan camp. A number of religious delegates are complaining that party officials are scripting the pro-life agenda out of the media spotlight in order to project a "big tent" image of moderation and inclusion. Several party activists from the pro-life side are quoted in today's Los Angeles Times; one told the paper that ''There's a disconnect between the platform and the image projected at the convention." Another complained that GOP bigwigs were "tolerant to everybody except the conservative wing of the party -- and we're the majority. It's a slap in the face." Reportedly, Christian Coalition Director Ralph Reed is "comfortable" playing a backseat role -- especially since the party platform reflects the views of his group and other religious activists. "What we are willing to do is to allow the party to do what its job is, and that is to put on a winning convention," Reed declared. "Our job was to ensure that the party remained pro-life and pro-family, and we did our job." * Pundits note that despite the presence of the Dole-Kemp ticket, and the carefully crafted media blitz emphasizing "tolerance" and "inclusion," the Platform is a Buchananesque document on most of the social issues, including abortion and school prayer. * Religious conservative Alan Keyes, never quite totally comfortable in the Christian Coalition stable of approved candidates, is lamenting the high-profile appearances of pro-choice Republicans like New Jersey Governor Christine Whitman and the keynoter, Rep. Susan Molinari. "This has been a very scripted, Stalinist convention," Keyes told USA TODAY. Hard-Ball Strategy Against Tolerance Not getting play in the media, though, is the story of exactly how the Christian Coalition "did its job," especially behind the doors of the Platform Committee meetings. Even before the opening gavel sounded in San Diego, Committee members were huddling to craft the policy document; and the Coalition has two objectives. The first was to insure that the Platform reflected continued support of an abortion ban in the form of a Human Life Amendment, something which most pundits admitted was a foregone conclusion. But there was the threat of a "tolerance language" statement which Reed, Gary Bauer of the Family Research Council, and anti-choice maven Phyllis Schlafly abhored. Christian Coalition had already polled the delegates on the Family Issues Subcommittee which was debating the abortion and tolerance planks, and knew that 14 members (most of them CC operatives) out of the 25 on the subcommittee opposed "tolerance." "At the last minute," says a Coalition e-mail release to members, "a family emergency kept one of the 14 pro-life delegates from traveling to San Diego...Pro-abortion delegates needed one vote to skuttle the pro-life plank." Tracking the crucial subcommittee delegates, and insuring that CC-affiliated delegates were at the right place at the proper time, was the result of nearly a year of training sessions and strategy meetings to get Coalition members elected as delegates. "After delegates were selected, the Coalition polled each one, asking a series of questions including whether they supported the pro-life plank and a pro-life running mate. Next, pro-life delegates worked for placement on the platform committee." Squelching even the tolerance declaration, says the CC, "meant smooth sailing for this week's convention." In other related developments from the convention... * AANEWS reported earlier this week that before even offering the VP slot to Jack Kemp, Senator Dole was on the phone to Ralph Reed and Pat Robertson for their input. Or was it permission? But even before the Kemp name was pulled out of the hat, Dole offered the post to kultur-guru William Bennett, who reportedly turned down the offer. * Christian Coalition has superb, Star Wars style technology at the convention, but it may not have the numbers off the convention floor. The Faith & Freedom Rally drew only 2,000 of the expected 3,000 participants; and the Coalition had set the goal of selling 50,000 tickets (at $10 a head). * The Coalition is looking beyond the 1996 Platform fight, and is choosing the perennial question of legalized gambling as another "hot button" issue for the year 2000. * Hollywood tough guy Bruce Willis -- usually one of the GOP supporters found on the streets of Tinseltown -- has released a statement blasting Bob Dole for his slap at the movie "Stripteast," which starred wife Demi Moore. "He needs to be reminded that movies are simply a form of entertainment," said Willis adding that "attendance to any movie is not compulsory." "Sen. Dole's comments that "Striptease" is simply 'a sad waste of talent and human energy' more aptly applies to the state of the government today rather than the entertainment industry. We cannot rule out the possibility that Sen. Dole never actually saw "Striptease"...or perhaps he simply didn't understand it. *** ROSWELL ''UFO'' DEBRIS FROM EARTH, SAYS LOS ALAMOS SCIENTIST One of the most enduring and unsubstantiated claims of pop-culture pseudoscience has suffered a setback, according to a story in today's edition of Britain's Electronic Telegraph. The paper reports that wreckage which some believe came from an alien space craft that supposedly crashed in Roswell, New Mexico decades ago, is really from earth, and displays the metalurgical properties endemic to this neck of the universe. Pieces of metal fragments were found by military personnel outside of Roswell on July 4, 1947. New coverage insisted that the Army had recovered portions of a flying saucer. Over the years, the government has claimed that the wreckage was from a weather balloon, although recently there have been reports suggesting that the debris was linked to a top-secret program to monitor Soviet nuclear tests by sampling air in the upper atmopshere. Despite those claims, "The Roswell Incident" has fostered a torrent of books, articles and claims. Some scenarios have the government recovering bodies of dead or living aliens; Roswell is also credited as the inspiration for the hit movie "Independence Day" where a reconstructed craft from Roswell was used to infect the invading mother ship with a computer virus. On a more down-to-earth note, though, Larry Collins, a scientist at Los Alamos National laboratory, analyzed a fragment of the debris which had been contributed by the Roswell UFO Museum. The Telegraph reports that Collins used mass spectrometry to examine the 50-50 mix of copper and silver present in the fragment; tests showed that the sample exhibited the same ratios as found on earth. "From a theoretical viewpoint, one would expect material from another solar system would not necessarily have the same ration," declared Collins. It is doubtful that many hard-core believers in the Roswell "mystery" will be swayed, though; evidence which tends to suggest a more prosaic explanation for the debris is often portrayed as part of a "government cover-up." Indeed, the Los Alamos findings may prompt yet another round of interest in "The Roswell Incident", similar to the flap over the "Alien Autopsy" film, which purported to show a medical examination of "what might be" one of the deceased beings from the wrecked UFO. The Telegraph reports that the British version of the film included "doctors dissecting hairless female corpses with reptilian eyes, no navels and enormous heads." The American version aired on the Fox network and was hosted by a grinning Jonathan Frakes, the actor who portrayed Commander William Riker on the popular "Star Trek: The Next Generation" series. Interestingly, Fox chose to digitially mask the genital region of the "alien" corpse. That film was allegedly sold by an unidentified American cameraman to a music video producer named Ray Santilli; there are reports that the film was supposedly acquired with the financial assistance of an unidentified German "collector." Santilli, says The Telegraph, "has struck worlwide exclusive deals with magazines and television companies" for rights on the grainy, indistinct footage. Despite claims made on the American program that a hoax would have required "state-of-the-art" special effects, critics said that 'Alien Autopsy" was clumsy, and far from a masterpiece. There are also questions concerning the age of the film; while one sample submitted to Kodak suggested that it could indeed date to 1947, there is no evidence that it is from the same reel as "Alien Autopsy." Notes The Telegraph: "Critics pointed out that even if the film stock can be proved to date from 1947, it does not prove the footage was originally shot on it." *** WHEN A PRAYER REALLY ISN'T A PRAYER Lawyers in a Florida suit challenging prayer at graduation ceremonies declared yesterday that a "spiritual message" really isn't the same as a prayer, and should thus be permitted. The Federal Appeals Court in Jacksonville is hearing arguments over the matter, which stems from a decision by the Duval County School Board, which banned the practice. In 1992, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that "school sponsored prayers" at graduation ceremonies were unconstitutional. The "spiritual message" ploy is similar to other strategems used by school prayer advocates, including a "moment of silence" and even a "non-denomination prayer" which supposedly offends no one. School prayer has become a volatile issue in Florida. In May, Governor Lawton Chiles vetoed a bill enacted by the state legislator which would have permitted "student led" or "student initiated" prayer in public schools. The provision was part of a larger education reform package, and would have given district school boards the option of deciding to permit the prayer during graduations, sporting events and certain kinds of assemblies. Following the veto, Chiles declared that "it is better for us to reverently honor prayer as individuals, in our places of worship, in our homes and in our hearts." *** About This List... AANEWS is a free service from American Atheists, a nationwide movement founded by Madalyn Murray O'Hair for the advancement of Atheism, and the total, absolute separation of government and religion. For information about American Atheists, send mail to: info@atheists.org and include your name and postal address. You may forward, post or quote from this dispatch, provided that appropriate credit is given to AANEWS and American Atheists. For subscribe/unsubscribe information, send mail to: aanews-request@listserv.atheists.org and put "info aanews" (minus the quotation marks) in the message body. Edited and written by Conrad F. Goeringer, The LISTMASTER. ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: Christian Science Healing Date: Thu Aug 22 18:02:31 CDT 1996 Message number: 21 Reply to message number: unavailable Ä Area: THEISTWATCH ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Msg#: 114 Date: 08-10-96 10:28 From: David Bloomberg Read: Yes Replied: No To: All Mark: Subj: Christian Science Medicar ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ From the Chicago Tribune, via Associated Press, 8/9/96: U.S. judge blocks Christian Science Medicare funds ST. PAUL -- For the first time, a federal judge has struck down Medicare and Medicaid payments to Christian science healers as a violation of the constitutional separation of church and state. Although Christian Science practitioners use no drugs or conventional medical treatments, they have received millions of dollars in federal reimbursements because the law explicitly applies to the Christian Science church. "Legislative accomodation of religious beliefs is a valuable and worthy enterprise, but here ... the acommodation has gone too far, and too strongly favors the convictions of one particular sect," U.S. District Judge Richard Kyle ruled Wednesday. Officials of the First Church of Christ, Scientist, which teaches prayer is the most effective treatment for illness, say the federal and state money pays for non-medical care like bandages. Church practitioners nationwide collect an estimated $8 million to $10 million in Medicare a year, said Robert Bruno, a lawyer for the plaintiffs. Church spokesman Victor Westberg said the figure is closer to $7 million or $7.5 million. The payments were challenged in a suit led by Rita Swan, a former Christian Scientist whose baby son died of meningitis in 1977. "To us, it's not so much the waste of taxpayers' money...," said Swan, founder of the Iowa- based Children's Healthcare Is A Legal Duty. "The endangerment of children is what motivated us." ... Time Zero ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: LIMBOLINA Date: Fri Nov 01 18:24:43 CST 1996 Message number: 22 Reply to message number: unavailable From: Dan Thornsberry Tinker v. Des Moines School District, said students couldn't be expelled for wearing armbands against the Vietnam War. The American Civil Liberties Union, which brought the landmark case on behalf of student Mary Beth Tinker, told AP that it objected to the school's policy of restricting any kind of t-shirt, religious or otherwise. "Students do not lose all their rights to expression at the door to the schoolhouse," said Joan Englund, legal director of the Ohio chapter of the ACLU. ---------------------------------------------------------------- ONLINE RESOURCES FROM THE ACLU NATIONAL OFFICE ---------------------------------------------------------------- ACLU Freedom Network Web Page: http://www.aclu.org. America Online users should check out our live chats, auditorium events, *very* active message boards, and complete news on civil liberties, at keyword ACLU. ---------------------------------------------------------------- ACLU Newsfeed American Civil Liberties Union National Office 132 West 43rd Street New York, New York 10036 To subscribe to the ACLU Newsfeed, send a message to majordomo@aclu.org with "subscribe News" in the body of the message. To terminate your subscription, send a message to majordomo@aclu.org with "unsubscribe News" in the body of the message. For general information about the ACLU, write to info@aclu.org. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent to the news ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Sandman Subject: Re: AAN#193 Date: Thu Nov 07 16:15:03 CST 1996 Message number: 32 Reply to message number: 23 S> * In Colorado, the so-called "God Tax" (Amendment II) which would have S> placed churches and other non-profits onto the tax rolls, was rejected by an S> 83% - 17% margin. I'm sort of divided on this one ... while I don't like the idea of small churches and charitable nonprofits being taxed, I wouldn't mind seeing taxes levied on religious groups who spent tax-free dollars on influencing elections. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Sandman Subject: Re: aan#193 Date: Thu Nov 07 16:17:07 CST 1996 Message number: 33 Reply to message number: 24 S> Throughout last evening and into today, Christian Coalition Director Ralp S> Reed was busy giving his take of the election outcome to the national media. S> He charged that Dole "did poorly...because he ran on the single-issue S> campaign of tax cuts and didn't speak more broadly to moral and social S> issues." Reed told USA TODAY that "Bob Dole represents what the party was S> and we (the Christian Coalition) represent what it is becoming." Cool, they're tearing themselves apart. Let's hope they keep it up for .... oh, another 20 or 30 years. At least until Clarence Thomas croaks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: AAN#193 Date: Thu Nov 07 17:33:14 CST 1996 Message number: 34 Reply to message number: 32 S> * In Colorado, the so-called "God Tax" (Amendment II) which would have S> placed churches and other non-profits onto the tax rolls, was rejected by an S> 83% - 17% margin. DR> DR> I'm sort of divided on this one ... while I don't like the idea of small DR> churches and charitable nonprofits being taxed, I wouldn't mind seeing taxe DR> levied on religious groups who spent tax-free dollars on influencing DR> elections. For what it is worth, Quakers always pay taxes on their property. I have been part of several discussions about it, and it almost always comes to the logic that material things are of this world, and as such, are to be governed by the masters of this world. So, "Render unto Caesar . . . " ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: DAEDALUS RISING Subject: Re: AAN#193 Date: Sat Nov 09 18:38:56 CST 1996 Message number: 35 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Daedalus Rising to Sandman <=- S> * In Colorado, the so-called "God Tax" (Amendment II) which would have S> placed churches and other non-profits onto the tax rolls, was rejected by S> 83% - 17% margin. DR> I'm sort of divided on this one ... while I don't like the idea of DR> small churches and charitable nonprofits being taxed, I wouldn't mind DR> seeing taxes levied on religious groups who spent tax-free dollars on DR> influencing elections. The problem comes when these "Nonprofits" begin to buy up land that is then taken off of the tax rolls leading to a money crunch. I tend to support the taxation of churches. They should recieve no special rights. ... N could be a vowel if enough people just believed in it. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: DAEDALUS RISING Subject: Re: aan#193 Date: Sat Nov 09 18:38:57 CST 1996 Message number: 36 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Daedalus Rising to Sandman <=- S> Throughout last evening and into today, Christian Coalition Director Ra S> Reed was busy giving his take of the election outcome to the national medi S> He charged that Dole "did poorly...because he ran on the single-issue S> campaign of tax cuts and didn't speak more broadly to moral and social S> issues." Reed told USA TODAY that "Bob Dole represents what the party was S> and we (the Christian Coalition) represent what it is becoming." DR> Cool, they're tearing themselves apart. Let's hope they keep it up DR> for .... oh, another 20 or 30 years. At least until Clarence Thomas DR> croaks. It's been so damn fun observing the Right-Wingers response to the elections. Pat Robertson is pissed off and is not going to take it anymore! Some pundits expect a battle within the next two years between the RR and the "Tax cuts NOW!" portion of the Republican Party. The utter contempt that the Right holds for the Democrats can't even come close the the contempt held for the traitors that call themselves Moderates. ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: AAN#195---1 Date: Wed Nov 20 18:35:33 CST 1996 Message number: 37 Reply to message number: unavailable A M E R I C A N A T H E I S T S nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnn AANEWS nnnnnnnnnn #195 uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu 11/8/96 http://www.atheists.org e-mail: aanews@atheists.org In This Issue... * Does Ralph Still Have A Job? A Look Ahead For The CC... * Coalition Survey: Statistics DO lie * TheistWatch: Your Prayers, Broadcast To God NEW SENATE LEADERSHIP MAY DETERMINE FATE OF COALITION AGENDA What's ahead for groups like the Christian Coalition, and the religious right's "culture war" agenda focusing on school prayer, abortion rights, vouchers and censorship? So far, there are mixed-signals on whether the Republican-dominated House of Representatives and Senate will pay much heed to those issues; plenty depends on how much rapport is established between Capitol Hill and the White House, whether President Clinton remains "teflon" in the swirl of allegations over Whitewater and other alleged improprieties, and the mood of Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott. * The Washington Times, a bellwether of religious conservative sentiment, suggests that the new class of incoming GOP legislators are more conservative on economic issues, but mentions none of the "culture war" topics. The paper reports that Senator Lott intends to emphasized deficit reductions, reform of the Internal Revnue Service, and a balanced-budget amendment; no Republican insiders, though, are talking about abortion or the Religious Equality Amendment, at least now. * Some of the GOP economic agenda will still require cooperation with the Clinton White House; the price for that may be a "hands off" attitude on abortion and school prayer. * Can Clinton weather the storm? "Nearly a dozen House and Senate panels are planning to expand probes into Whitewater, the travel office firings, the FBI files affair, and the fund-raising tactics of the Democratic National Committee and the Clinton campaign," notes the Times. Reporter Paul Bedard adds: " Mr. (Kenneth) Starr, the Whitewater counsel, is widely expected to seek indictments of senior White House officials and perhaps first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton." The bleak scenario, however, may be more style than substance. So far, the Clintons have survived investigations which have chewed up over $15 million; and, in a blow to partisan investigators, it was announced recently that Ms. Clinton's fingerprints were not on any of the FBI dossiers that constitute the "filegate" allegations. There could be image problems, though, for Clinton on the Paula Jones sex case; Mr. Clinton may find himself defending against sex harrassment charges as a sitting president. The Supreme Court may not be warm to the Solicitor General's argument that an in-term president should be immune from such civil cases. As for campaign "soft money," this is one case where both Democrats and Republicans have a common interest in gingerly avoiding exhaustive investigations in favor of cosmetic campaign spending reform. * Expect the "loyal opposition" to spin doctor just about everything that goes inside the Clinton administration. The resignation of top administration officials immediately following Clinton's Tuesday night election victory (a not-unusual event between the terms of a President), prompted headlines like the one in today's Washington Times: "Clinton aides charge for the exits." The ever-present un-named news source supposedly informed the paper that departing administrative operates were "all nervous about what's going to happen. The inner circle is apprehensive about the scandals and other related issues..." ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: aan#195---2 Date: Wed Nov 20 18:35:34 CST 1996 Message number: 38 Reply to message number: unavailable Focus on Lott The Christian Coalition had problems getting House Speaker Newt Gingrich to move on parts of its social agenda following the 1994 Republican sweep which gave the GOP control of both the House and Senate for the first time in 40-years. Indeed, religious conservatives used words like "betrayal" to describe the attitude of the Gingrich congressional freshmen who emphasized economic issues, and put the Coalition's religious and social programs on the legislative back burner. Like Gingrich, Senate Majority Leader Lott is considered a player and deal-maker. But he represents Mississippi, a state with powerful fundamentalist and evangelical religious constituencies; Lott was also vocal in supporting calls for a school prayer amendment at the time of the Lisa Herdahl case. Herdahl challenged the policy in a Mississippi school district which permitted "student led" prayers to be broadcast over the public address system. Lott was among supporters of a "God and Country" rally which attracted over 3,000 people to the steps of the Pontotoc County Court House. ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: aan#195---3 Date: Wed Nov 20 18:35:35 CST 1996 Message number: 39 Reply to message number: unavailable ** COALITION SURVEY DISTORTS ''FIREWALL'' ROLE IN ELECTION The Christian Coalition is continuing to publicize its much-touted survey conducted by the firm of Wirthlin Worldwide, but the statistics don't add up to justify the role claimed by the religious group that it is represents a broad and significant constituency which acted as a "firewall" in Tuesday's election. In fact, the study -- released to the media on Wednesday in a series of press releases, and discussed by Christian Coalition Director Ralph Reed at the National Press Club -- uses highly selective statistical evidence to draw broad conclusions at odds with other more comprehensive autopsies of the 1996 election. * CLAIM ~ "Preliminary results from Election Night '96 indicate that the largest number of religious conservative voters in the presidential election turned out to the polls despite the fact that overall voter turnout was low... more than one out of every four voters was a self-described, born-again Christian who frequently attends church." FACT ~ Ralph Reed had promised to turn out fundamentalist and evangelical Christians as a block, presumably greater in number than gay voters, union voters or other identifiable segments. But the statistics begin to change when it is noted that only 53% of this segment voted for Dole, and 36% throwing their support behind President Clinton. In terms of delivering a monolithic block and preventing "meltdown," the 53% is not that significant when you consider the 47% "born-again Christian" segment who voted for Clinton, Perot or the other third-party candidates. If past elections are any indication, those who report being "evangelicals" and "born-agains" can be a diverse lot; a majority of this group, for instance, voted for Jimmy Carter. * CLAIM ~ "Soccer moms (white females between the ages of 25 and 49 with children) were nearly a dead-even race...Dole scored 43% to Clinton's 45% in this sub-group." * FACT ~ This claim by the Coalition stands at odds with all other surveys which we have found in the national media. "Soccer moms" voted overwhelmingly for Clinton, and in some exit-polls by margins of up to 57% to 33% for Dole and 9% for Perot. * CLAIM ~ "Fifteen percent of all voters said they are either members or supporters of Christian Coalition. Of the voters who describe themselves as members or supporters of Christian Coalition, the ballot was 67% Dole to 20% Clinton." * FACT ~~ While this indeed may reflect the responses of people in the Wirthlin survey, it is a strange item to include in the survey, and should be suspect on a number of counts. The 15% must be understood within the context that turnout in this election was low, near 50% of those eligible, and substantially under the 1960 peak of the Kennedy-Nixon race. In addition, why would 23% of Coalition "members" or "supporters" be throwing their vote to a candidate other than the one officially endorsed by their own group? The Coalition is not a political party whose members "cross the lines" to vote for members of opposition parties -- or is it? * CLAIM ~ "Bill Clinton's close ties to labor unions, feminists and the gay rights lobby proved to be a large negative. Forty six percent of all voters said they felt the president was too closely associated with these liberal special interest groups..." * FACT ~ Clinton carried 57% of the votes from those who described themselves as political moderates, a 10% gain over his performance in 1992 with this same category. And the 46% figure doesn't match the 59% of all union households who voted for Clinton. ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: aan#195---4 Date: Wed Nov 20 18:35:36 CST 1996 Message number: 40 Reply to message number: unavailable What The Survey DIDN'T Say Despite the attempt to show evangelicals and fundamentalists as a block which could "be delivered" by Christian Coalition handlers to any candidate the organization chose, there were too many other factors involved in the voter's choices to make this a significant claim. Coalition "hot button" issues like abortion, school prayer, gays in the military and even parental rights were not among the major concerns of most voters. They focused (in order of importance) on the economy and jobs, medicare social-security issues, taxes and the deficit, quality of education and foreign policy. Ralph Reed had been urging Dole (especially in the latter days of the campaign) to hit Clinton on "character" issues and the "culture wars" agenda, but even Dole realized that these were peripheral concerns for most voters. The Wirthlin-CC poll makes the redundant claim that "Dole's poor performance apparently rested with an inability to motivate self-identified Republican voters and to persuade independents that he was the better candidate." Blocks that the Coalition suggests it represents even voted for Clinton. The President took 53% of all votes cast by Roman Catholics, despite his veto of the Partial Birth Abortion Ban and his stand on abortion rights in general; indeed, that figure is up from the 47% he gathered in 1992 when running against then-President George Bush. And where "culture war" issues were presented on the ballot, they did not always do well from the Coalition's viewpoint. The "Parental Rights" proposal in Colorado was defeated by 2-1, for instance, a margin that stunned both supporters and even opponents. Also significant is that the Coalition's own data pertaining to "born again" Christians and "frequent church attenders." Polls concerning church attendance have been highly suspect; follow-up studies show that people often CLAIM to be church goers when, in fact, they are not. It is a fact which some are reluctant to admit on the phone or in person to a stranger. But within this category, fully 20% saw "taxes and the deficit" as the primary issue in Election '96, followed by 14% emphasizing "jobs and the economy." Only 28% of the "born again-frequent church attenders" category considered "moral issues like abortion and gay rights" to be paramount. Of THAT smaller category, 61% voted for Dole, and 22% supported Clinton ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: aan#195---5 Date: Wed Nov 20 18:35:37 CST 1996 Message number: 41 Reply to message number: unavailable THEISTWATCH SHORT SHOTS Not so long ago, a British astronomer mused that efforts to contact extra-terrestrial civilizations by beaming radio messages into the depths of space may result in some unwanted, hostile visitors. After all, how do you think those slimeball aliens in the blockbuster movie "Independence Day" or NBC's "Dark Skies" series located us? We might want to speculate, though, on how a distant civilization might judge us based on the content of whatever THEIR radio astronomers happen to grab out of the sky. (I'm told that fortunately most popular broadcast frequences don't travel beyond our atmopshere with any coherence, but...) Would they consider us infantile? superstitious? violent? Might an invading fleet of aliens be deterred after picking up, say, Star Trek, or even a late-night Godzilla rerun? And what might intelligent aliens -- and brighter earth denizens -- think of the service offered by one firm in Phoenix, Arizona, called "Prayers Heavenbound." "Modern technology has finally caught up with mankind's spiritual needs," the firm tells us. "Here is a non-denominational, publicly accessible direct link to the Heavens that can electronically beam prayers, hopes and dreams into space, into time, ...into forever." For a mere $9.95 per page, "Prayers Heavenbound" promises to convert one's missive into a digital format which is then launched "electronically at the speed of light on a powerful microwave radio beam into deep space. As soon as they are sent, they become available to be intercepted by God." Potential prayer-trekkers are given a list of suggestions which may prompt them to use such a space age service... "Prayer of request, and of thanks -- declarations of your faith and love of God -- holy vows, including marriage -- obituaries, and prayers for souls -- something you wish you had said to a departed soul." In addition to having God de-scramble your electronic propitiation, you receive "a handsome 8.5 x 11 inch BROADCAST CERTIFICATE suitable for framing. This document certifies the transmission of your message with a signed and dated Authentication Seal." Is "Prayers Heavenbound" for real? Is this a spoof on the boundless credulity of many religious believers? Are these folks serious when they ask web surfers to "Click here to see what many believe is the face of Jesus in space"? Check them out for yourself at http://www.primenet.com/~prayers/, but remember that people are faxing prayers to Vatican City, and even the Wailing Wall in Jerusalem where pieces of fax papers are wedged between the stones by conscientious rabbis. ** At times, the excruciating deliberations of theologians truly do tax one's common sense and hope for the progressive improvement of the human race. Case in point -- the debate in Israel among secularists and different religious factions over a proposal to shut down a major traffic artery in Jerusalem, Bar Ilan Street. Recall that ever since the election of Benjamin Netanyahu as Prime Minister, the religious fundamentalist political parties in Israel have basked in the glow of unprecedented power, and steadilly escalated their demands on how Israelis must conform to strict, orthodox religious law. In Jerusalem, thousands of Orthodox fanatics poured onto Bar Ilan street, demanding that it be shut down during the Jewish sabbath. The country's supreme court refused to acquiesce, and even the Likud Party -- which depends heavilly on the religious sects to hold together a tenuous coalition government -- was less than enthused. Secularists properly saw the call to shut down Bar Ilan as simply the first sinister step in a wider, pernicious "culture war" not altogether than different from the ones being waged by religious fanatics elsewhere. Enlightened Israelis, led by the Meretz political group, countered the Orthodox hooligans with their own demonstrations. The struggle over Bar Ilan street has become an icon for the battle lines separating progressive, secularist Israelis from their authoritarian, Orthodox foes. The government promptly formed a panel to study the problem further, and earlier this week the Zamaret Committee made public its report. The report is unlikely to please either side. It proposes that Bar Ilan be shut down during synogogue services, and that when work on an alternative transportation route is completed, Bar Ilan street then be closed for the duration of the sabbath. "The committee also recommended that the transportation needs of the secular community on Shabbat be taken into consideration and that suitable cultural venues should be open on Shabbat," added the Post. The compromise does not appear to please the religious, especially those who have vowed to enforce Orthodox law by shutting down restaurants, theatres, bars and other diversions during the sabbath. Kudos to the Meretz Party which is vowing to renew its struggle to keep Bar Ilan street open, especially its representative on the Jerusalem City Council, Arnon Yekutieli. Sooner or later, the Bar Ilan controversy will end up in Israel's supreme court, which already has been described as "the enemy" by the country's leading religious fundamentalists. ** A multitude of crimes and outrages can be "forgiven" with a quickie-conversion to religious ideology. That may account for why, according to some studies, Atheists are only 2% of the prison population, as compared with 10% of the overall demographic sample. The list of those who find succor (and preumably divine and public forgiveness) in high-profile conversions to religious righteousness is truly legion. From Watergate crooks to mass murderers, it is a rogues gallery -- and one which now includes the late Jean Bedel Bokassa, former "Emperor" of the "Central African Empire." While secularists like Nelson Mandella in South Africa were languishing in jail, or fighting for human rights, Bokassa was seizing political power and establishing a debauched regal dictatorship which was a combination horror show and lunatic asylum. He died last Friday in exile. Born in 1921, Jean Bedel Bokassa was educated in Roman Catholic schools in the Congo and initially planned on a career in the priesthood. In 1939 he joined the French Army, ending up as a sergeant who managed to survive the defeat of the once proud colonial power at Dien Bien Phu. Back in the Central African Republican, Bokassa led a military coup against his cousin, David Dacko, and immediately claimed titles such as president, prime minister, leader of the one permitted political party, and eventually Emperor of the newly-named "Central African Empire." His coronation gobbled up an estimated 15%-20% of the nation's total annual revenues, and was supposedly modeled after that of the Emperor Napoleon. Even as a buffoon, Bokassa turned out to be one of the most brutal and despotic leaders of his time. He bankrupted the country, and while for many years he was reliable surrogate for French interest, his outrageous, lavish lifestyle and bizarre behavior finally resulted in his Paris handlers overthrowing his government in September, 1979. Bokassa spent his final days in the Ivory Coast, where according to the New York Times he "returned to the intense religion of his youth, praying several times a day with a well-thumbed Bible." The man who had dozens of wives and concubines, and had been charged even with cannibalism and rivaled perhaps only Idi Amin for his brutish behavior, "told a recent visitor that he had renounced alcohol and sexual relations for several years." ** A military stand-off in Afghanistan doesn't mean an end to news about the religious Taliban militia which presently controls most of the country and has established a harsh Islamic dictatorship. Perhaps the two most telling significant signs of any religious or political movement is its stand concerning womens rights and good booze. In the case of the Taliban, it didn't take long to ascertain where the near-illiterate mullahs stand on either issue. The fundamentalists quickly shut down girls schools, banned women from the workplace, and commanded all females to wear the head-to-toe "chador" or heav veil and gown. As for the booze, much to the lament of the foreign diplomats and journalists (and not a small segment of the population in the capital of Kabul), the Taliban closed the only decent bar in town located at the International Hotel. That apprently hasn't stopped the Taliban -- and presumably their backers at Pakistan's Intelligence Service -- from running the opium trade at full blast. Indeed, says Britain's Electronic Telegraph, the mullahs have now been told by the head of the United Nations Drug Control Programme that they "must accept the link between it's illicit export and humanitarian aid." Despite the fact that Afghanistan has labored under different Islamic regimes in the last several years, production of opium rose to a record 2,400 metric tons, putting the country a close second to Burma in the production of the drug. It is popular knowledge that the Taliban clerics are now exacting the 10% tax on opium as their predecessors did. Indeed, during the protracted civil war with the Soviet Union, competing groups within the Mujahadeen all were involved in narcotics sales, a lucrative way of raising cash to purchase weapons on the international arms market. One of the shocking things about the Taliban regime has been the brutal crackdown on just about all segments of Afghan society -- especially women -- and its seamless integration into the opium economy. ** ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: AAN#197---1 Date: Wed Nov 20 18:35:38 CST 1996 Message number: 42 Reply to message number: unavailable A M E R I C A N A T H E I S T S nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnn AANEWS nnnnnnnnnn #197 uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu 11/11/96 (Nightowl Edition) http://www.atheists.org e-mail: aanews@atheists.org ftp.atheists.org In This Issue... * Atheists Wants Church Investigated For Election Violation * Iran Continues To Violate Human Rights * TheistWatch: "Possessed" Towns, Blue Beams, Millennial Madness * Reach Our Goal -- 10,000 Subscribers * AACHAT * About This List... ATHEIST PROTESTS RELIGIOUS ''SIN VOTE'' THREAT In last Tuesday's election, considerable media attention focused on the activities of the Christian Coalition and its distribution of over 45 million "voters guides" rating candidates for federal and state offices. But the Coalition wasn't the only religious group urging churches (at the risk of violating their tax exempt status) of voting for or against specific candidates. In Louisiana, Roman Catholic authorities tried to bully church members into voting against Mary Landrieu, a pro-choice candidate for Senate who managed to win her hotly-contested race. American Atheists member Kevin Courcey of Eugene, Oregon has sent the following letter to the Federal Elections Commission protesting this violation... * Federal Elections Commission 999 E. St., NW Washington, DC 20463 To whom it may concern, I have just become aware of a situation in Louisiana that should warrant your attention. Three days ago, Phillip Hannan, the former Catholic Archbishop of New Orleans, called a TV news conference where he told Catholics that it would be a "sin" to vote for Bill Clinton and for Mary Landrieu (a pro-choice candidate for the U.S. Senate). When asked by the reporters, he said that he was speaking for himself and for the present Archbishop and for all the eight bishops in Louisiana; he said that they had all talked about it and agreed that he would make the announcement because of his "ease on television." I am requesting a full investigation of this incident as a violation of the tax laws which govern religious institutions. This is blatant partisan political action by a tax-exempt church. This church's tax-exempt status in Louisiana should be revoked for 4 years, or at least until after the next national election. Churches and religious personalities have every right to make political endorsements if they wish to give up their tax exempt status. But they can't have it both ways. Our constitution and tax laws are set up to avoid such an "entanglement." Please investigate and, if appropriate, prosecute the Catholic church of Louisiana for this violation as soon as possible in order to avoid a wave of similar violations in future elections. Thank you for your attention to this important issue. Kevin Courcey ** ... Grey: (n.) an alien lifeform traveling light-years to molest cattle. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: AAN#197--2 Date: Wed Nov 20 18:35:39 CST 1996 Message number: 43 Reply to message number: unavailable HUMAN RIGHTS IN IRAN ~~ FROM BAD TO WORSE, SAYS UN REP The human rights situation in theocratic Iran "may well have deteriorated" in the last year, according to the author of a report circulated on behalf of the US Commission on Human Rights. Author Maurice Copithorne noted: "As will be seen...the information reaching the special representative suggests that the condition of human rights in the Islamic Republic of Iran may well have deteriorated since his report earlier this year..." While Copithorne noted "some positive signs," he balanced that development with indications that "the punishment regime in Iran would seem to have been significantly toughened." Among the signs of deteriorating conditions are: * A rise in the known number of executions to 66 people. (This figure does not include "wet work" carried out by the Iranian intelligence service either in Iran or abroad, specifically directed against dissidents and critics of the regime.) * "A number of indications that the social climate in the Islamic Republic is becoming less tolerant." In this category, the report noted censorship of newsmedia, orchestrated attacks on movie by quasi-government fundamentalist groups protesting films thought "contrary to Islamic and religious values," disruption of opposition meetings and "forcible interventions to break up private social functions which on occasion resulted in death." In Tehran, Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Velayati denounced the report and lamented that "Unfortunately, human rights has become a tool of the world powers in international bodies." The mullah added that "There are a lot of countries which do not believe in the principles of democracy and human rights, but there is no talk of them because of their close ties with the West." Velayati dismissed Copithorne's report calling it "baseless and affected by ulterior political motives." He did not deny specific allegations, though, including those dealing with hooligan activities of religious fundamentalist groups, apparently with official approval. ** ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: aan#197---3 [1/2] Date: Wed Nov 20 18:35:40 CST 1996 Message number: 44 Reply to message number: unavailable >>> Part 1 of 2... ** THEISTWATCH SHORT SHOTS Are some flavors of christianity really that different from ancient cults which saw the world as "enchanted," inhabited by spirits and a battleground in some cosmic soap opera between the forces of "good" and "evil"? Not really. In the novels of "Christian thriller" writer Frank Peretti, for instance, demons move in on whole towns to take possession of citizens, work their diabolical deeds through new age dupes and witches, and end up getting their metaphysical butts kicked by angels and "prayer warriors." You probably won't find Peretti's works in the mall bookstores, but you will encounter the genre of "Christian thrillers" in the growing number of religious shops selling everything from books to theologically-correct music. Indeed, a shocking number of otherwise-normal, twentieth century folks really and truly believe that demons are responsible for the sorts of things most social scientists blame on unemployment, poverty, lack of education and other material factors. In increasing numbers, some churches are holding "prayer warrior" raids on communities, or gatherings which they insist are meant to literally drive the devil out of town faster than you can say "James Arness." One such religious Marshall Dillon is the Rev. Tom Bowers of California who heads an outfit called Prayer Partners International, and insist that god has given him a list of cities throughout the southwest that are, essentially, taken over by devils. Pastor Tom recently brought his "Prayer Crusade" to Riverside, California, where his lunacy even received the support of a local City Council representative. She used an official council meeting last month to urge the public to hunker down to Pastor Tom's revival show, adding "There are forces in this community that are not angelic. In fact, some of them are in this room and all around us, and so we need to pray against those and pray for the goodness that God wants to do in this community." One wonders whether to laugh, cry, or call for a doctor -- and a First Amendment attorney. The council representative, identified in the Riverside Press Enterprise as Cynthia Crothers, had no business using a public forum to boost any kind of religious event, including a ridiculous "prayer warrior" rally that even a respectable Pope or Episcopalian Vicar wouldn't be seen at. Worse yet is the medievalist notion of spreading fear and suspicion about "forces in the community that are not angelic," and who happen to participate in such mundane affairs as city council proceedings. Councilwoman Crothers insisted "I'm not going to take a chance at burning in hell for pointing a finger at somebody," which is a convenient way of saying "I'm avoiding a lawsuit (and maybe a one-way ticket to the nearest psychiatric facility)." We may snicker a bit at the stereotypical image of some Puritan zealot during the witch hysteria blaming everything from storms and illness to the antics of unwholesome spirits and demons. We've moved beyond that, you say? Unfortunately, some twentieth century proselytizers are back in that rut, explaining any kind of social disfunction on demonic possession, and calling for a crusade by "prayer warriors." ** Several editions of AANEWS have mentioned cases where the religious became excited, outraged and, well, constipated over the issue of swimsuits. You would think, of course, that with somewhat larger concerns like perhaps abortion, or school vouchers, or the attempts by some anti-christ chap to establish an anti-religious world government would motivate the "people of faith" to direct their energies elsewhere... but, no, that thong bikini must go, and government must protect one and all from the sight of naked, tempting flesh. No, we're not talking about the beaches of Florida, where just a few years ago religious groups DID get excited -- and outraged -- over thong bikinis. We're talking about India, the Miss World contest (scheduled for later this month), and swimsuits. Seems that a hoard (or is it a swarm?) of Hindu religious nationalist descended on the home of a public official to protest the Miss World contest. Reportedly, a group of women is threatening to set themselves on fire if the contest takes place, and other Hindu groups are vowing everything from arson to riots to stop the event. In fact, the event has become so controversial -- and for the wrong reasons -- that pageant organizers have decided to move the swimsuit event to the Seychelles islands in the Indian Ocean. That should put enough distance between all those outraged Hindus, and all that exposed flesh, no? ** Yet another poll has confirmed that the Christian Coalition is wrong in saying that conservative fundamentalists and evangelicals played the role of being a "firewall" which prevented a "meltdown" in last week's election. It just ain't so, Ralph. But there were some subtle differences on how candidates Clinton and Dole fared with voters of varying religious backgrounds. According to an analysis by New York Times religious writer Gustav Niebuhr, Republican Bob Dole did best with those identified as Protestants, getting 50% of those votes compared to 41% who supported Mr. Clinton. The remaining 9%, though, didn't follow the call of the Christian Coaltion -- most threw their vote behind Ross Perot, or divided up among smaller third-party groups. And Catholics went for Clinton, despite efforts by the religious right to link the president to the issue of so-called "partial birth abortion." Indeed, Mr. Clinton's decision last April to veto the "Partial Birth Abortion Ban" might have hurt his standing with Roman Catholic leadership (it earned him an unusual letter of official rebuke from the National Conference of Catholic Bishops), but the president still managed to get 53%, compared with only 35% for Dole. According to political analyst John Green, Catholics reacted negatively to calls by Republicans to cut social welfare program. And what about Atheists? So far, we haven't found any studies which indicate who the "people of no faith" supported. The Times notes, however, that Clinton did well in areas with high religious diversity, large concentrations of Jewish and Catholic voters, and places where there are "significant minorities of people who claim no religious affiliation at all." Niebuhr says those areas include California, Nevada and Washington state. ** Well, are they "saved" or not? Nobody seems to know for sure, at least in Britain where authorities of the Church of England remain deeply divided over a "gay mass" scheduled for this Saturday, when more than 2,000 people are expected for the 20th anniversary of the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement in Southward Cathedral. Last week, the Archbishop of Canterbury pleaded that the decision to hold the celebration did not involve him or other church honchos, and did not represent a shift in the Anglican religion's condemnation of homosexuality. Indeed, the church stands by its 1987 decision that "homosexual genital acts are to be met with a call to repentance." Even so, the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement has spent two decades wasting time trying to ordain gay ministers and have monogamous homosexual relationships accorded the same status as heterosexual marriages. Church hard liners are charging that the cathedral event is a "day-long festival of gay sex." But a spokesman for the local cathedral denied that claim, insisting that the service would feature instead "themes of thanksgiving, intercession and pentinence." Care to argue which is worse? ** Speaking of the Church of England, put this one in the "right conclusion -- bad reasoning" file. According to the London Times, Anglican officials worry that the country is being plagued with an outbreak of crank, new age beliefs which could have widespread and deleterious social consequences. A report titled "The Search for Faith and the Witness of the Church" examines five areas of "Post-Modern Life" and finds that all are characterized by "drifting belief." And part of the drift is away from Christian orthodoxy. "It is becoming more eclectic," says the report in reference to British culture. "The more people move away from belonging to institutions, the less do they have something to anchor their faith. People pick up all kinds of things. This drifting of belief is causing fragmentation, and is itself fragmentation.; We can see this personal and social fragmentation all around us." Alas, there are totalitarian overtones in the "Search for Faith" document, especially when it bemoans the "maze of choices" and asks "What of people who hear the Gospel but cannot or will not believe it?" ** As we've reminded AANEWS in many past issues, expect more lunacy and religious babbling -- much of it with dire, apocalyptic overtones -- as we approach the year 2000. For a surprisingly wide assortment of folks, ranging from fundamentalist christians to new age devotees, 2000 (or thereabouts) -- the transitition to another millennium -- can be everything from the fulfillment of biblical prophecy and the end of the world, the the landing of benevolent aliens or the emergence of some newfangled human super-consciousness. It all depends on whose apocalpyse drum beating you happen to be listening to. One excellent source in tracking millennialist angst, craziness and hysteria is the "Millennial Prophecy Report" published by Ted Daniels at the Millennium Watch Institute. MPR manages to cover most of the cultural terrain and waterfront in its quarterly issues; and one story titled "The New Age Carnival" caught your editor's eye in the October issue. Seems that a member of something called the Southern Kentucky Citizens Militia is warning the public of the dangers lurking in amusement carnivals and theme parks which are "hothouses of New Age belief and practice." One park supposedly boasts an attraction called "Chaos Chemicals Quarantine...straight from the Bible." Rather than try and paraphrase, we'll just quote from the latest Millennial Prophecy Report... "While people wait in line 'a futuristic, soothing, hypnotic, monotone female voice...endlessly proclaims' what they will find inside. As 'the voice of Chaos,' it assures attendees that they have been 'sanctioned' to 'check-in for purification' with a bar code passport. They will be inventoried and quarantined, once they step into line to enter the New World Order. It urges reluctant witnesses to 'abort not' and ends its spiel with a mantra: 'Lock; six, double six, nin, nine.' Cerebral scanning begins, always provided postulants are purified from all contamination." If that not far-out enough, there's a gal who insists that the Vatican is threatening her life because she has exposed something called "Project Blue Beam," "which will also life 'a whole bunch of people...into never-never land' in a false rapture." Yeah. Right. Millennial Propecy Report is worth either a sub or certainly a check-out at the MPR website. Visit http://www.channel1.com/mpr. And watch out for Project Blue Beam. ** HELP US REACH OUR GOAL... We have another seven weeks left to reach our goal of 10,000 AANEWS subscribers. Along with postings on the internet and in the American Atheist Newsletter, many people "discover" us when friends forward a copy to them. All it takes is the push of a button; just hit forward, and send AANEWS to someone who might be interested. ** INTERESTED IN MEETING OTHER ATHEISTS? OR HELPING OUT? One good way to interact with other Atheists is to join American Atheists and participate in our on-line, moderated discussion forum, aachat. This newsgroup is open to members of American Atheists, and discusses topics ranging from Atheism and the First Amendment to history, AA activities, civil liberties issues and much more. If you would like to participate, contact our moderator, Margie Wait at aachat@atheists.org. AMERICAN ATHEISTS also operates a FaxNet to help distribute press releases and other information to the media. If you are an AA member with a fax machine and would like to participate, contact Margie Wait at mdwait@atheists.org for information. ** About This List... AANEWS is a free service from American Atheists, a nationwide movement founded by Madalyn Murray O'Hair for the advancement of Atheism, and the >>> Continued to next message... ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: aan#197---3 [2/2] Date: Wed Nov 20 18:35:41 CST 1996 Message number: 45 Reply to message number: unavailable >>> Part 2 of 2... total, absolute separation of government and religion. For information about American Atheists, send mail to info@atheists.org and include your name and postal address. You may forward, post or quote from this dispatch, provided that appropriate credit is given to aanews and American Atheists. For subscribe/unsubscribe information, send mail to: aanews-request@listserv.atheists.org and put "info aanews" (minus the quotation marks, please) in the message body. Edited and written by Conrad F. Goeringer, The LISTMASTER (cg@atheists.org). Internet Representative for American Atheists is Margie Wait, irep@atheists.org ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Sandman Subject: Re: AAN#195---1 Date: Wed Nov 20 18:48:54 CST 1996 Message number: 46 Reply to message number: 37 S> reports that Senator Lott intends to emphasized deficit reductions, reform o S> the Internal Revnue Service, and a balanced-budget amendment; no Republican S> insiders, though, are talking about abortion or the Religious Equality S> Amendment, at least now. But the balanced budget amdendment may be worse than school parayer or anti-abortion rhetoric ever would be ... next time we hit a recession, there will be no way to spend our way out of it. And god forbid if we actually fall into a derepession ... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GREGOR SAMSA To: Froggy Subject: Re: That darned liberal Date: Thu Nov 21 14:36:11 CST 1996 Message number: 47 Reply to message number: 1 F> Some would say that "hardworking," and "capitalist" are a conflict F> terms. As far as honest, why does the state on Minnesota have to live with I have to agree with this one frogster! Hardworking only applies to those who are trying make a living wage for themselves while making the capitalist ruling class even wealthier! But you know where i stand on this one :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Gregor Samsa Subject: Re: That darned liberal Date: Sat Nov 23 16:12:18 CST 1996 Message number: 48 Reply to message number: 47 GS> I have to agree with this one frogster! Hardworking only applies to those w GS> are trying make a living wage for themselves while making the capitalist GS> ruling class even wealthier! But you know where i stand on this one :) Long time no see, what's been going on with you lately? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THROCKMORTON To: SANDMAN Subject: Re: aan#193 Date: Tue Dec 03 11:42:21 CST 1996 Message number: 49 Reply to message number: unavailable S> DR> Cool, they're tearing themselves apart. Let's hope they keep it up > DR> for .... oh, another 20 or 30 years. At least until Clarence Thomas > DR> croaks. S> It's been so damn fun observing the Right-Wingers response to the > elections. Almost as much fun as watching the liberals after the 94 congressional elections. --- ž OLX 1.53 ž If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GREGOR SAMSA To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: That darned liberal Date: Thu Dec 05 17:24:54 CST 1996 Message number: 50 Reply to message number: 48 DR> Long time no see, what's been going on with you lately? 3 words actually--Music, Music, and Music. On a harsher plain, I'm shifting platforms--finally! So far I've spent over 2k on trying to make my PC emulate an the Atari for music! this doesn't even cover the cost of the machine! Once, I finally get the machine back in the indeterminable future (it seems to always be in the shop for reconfigs and updates), I'll try to find a good off line reader and rejoin dissent. I do miss the debate here! In the meantime, I'll check back from time to time for mail. For the time being my PC has been in the shop for around 3 weeks, while the techs try to make it do, what I expect it to do! And the Atari keeps me conected... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Gregor Samsa Subject: Re: That darned liberal Date: Fri Dec 06 16:43:41 CST 1996 Message number: 51 Reply to message number: 50 DR> Long time no see, what's been going on with you lately? GS> GS> 3 words actually--Music, Music, and Music. If I had an excuse, it would be Homeowrk Homework and Homework. I need a break. GS> On a harsher plain, I'm shifting platforms--finally! So far I've spent over GS> on trying to make my PC emulate an the Atari for music! this doesn't even GS> cover the cost of the machine! I don't understand why anyone would want to make an IBM look like an Atari, but good luck :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: All Subject: Writing Date: Wed Jan 01 19:15:33 CST 1997 Message number: 52 Reply to message number: unavailable Sb: #631092-#writers Fm: J. MICHAEL STRACZYNSKI [snip] Let's say you're a chicken buyer. In other words, not to put too fine a point on it, so you won't think I'm saying you're a cautious consumer, you buy chickens. A purchaser of fine fowl from MikalMart Industries, the leading purveyer of chickenmeat from sea to shining sea, a king among chickens, we're talking here the brilliant Kilimanjaro of fresh wings and things. Are you with me so far? Good. You spend every day looking at chickens. Smelling chickens. Fondling chickens. (On second thought, let's not go there.) Suffice to say, you know from chickens. It's what you do. You know the chicken needs to be full, not skinny, better raised natural than pumped full of chemicals and hormones and things nobody else should know about...you know the meat should not look brusied, or appear that it was in life anything but a happy, contented chicken right up until the day it looked up and realized that the god of all chickens wasn't really paying attention to his little prayers and boom, the head goes flying and it's a fine day for chicken sandwiches. So one day, somebody comes up to you, and says he's a chicken farmer. Well, he's not *actually* a chicken farmer, he doesn't have the time or the wherewithal to actually *raise* chickens, but he has some good ideas on how they should be raised, and he knows, just because he KNOWS, what would make for a good chicken. And you rock back on your heels, and because it's a slow day in the MikalMart Head Office, you've got a few minutes on your hands, you figure, what the heck...and you try to explain to this kid what makes a good chicken...and he cuts you off and says, "Yeah, like you'd know." Do you begin to see the picture here? Am I saying that writing is like chicken buying? No, though certainly it isn't a field for chickens. (I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.) But in their ways, both are professions, and both require judgment calls by people in a position to buy material. When you talk to a professional, he will give you his professional opinion. Nothing is served by then saying that the opinion is rude. That's what kills most people who want to be writers; they get easily offended, they don't want to do the work, they don't like the way the field works, they want it to work the way they THINK it should work rather than the way it works. But as with any profession, good information is crucial. Not mythology, not feel-good-aw-that's-okay-sweetie little bunny-hugs. Writing is a field for the strong of heart, who can take stern warnings and rejection and deal with the difficulties of the field, and the lack of real time, and all of the grief...and still persevere. That's a writer. Whether or not you can do that is, of course, your call. To show us, or not. Bottom line...though mistakes can always be made, an editor or a writer *can* tell you what makes for a good writer. If you choose to ignore that, well, that's your choice. Final aside: there's a movie starring James Garner, a western, I'm trying to remember the name...might've been Hearts of the West, but I'm not sure. Anyway, Garner is looking over a campfire at the Young Kid in the movie, and says, "So kid, what's your story?" The kid sips at his coffee, and says, "I'm a writer." And Garner smiles, shakes his head. "Kid," he says, "you're a writer when a WRITER says you're a writer." To quote Sean Connery..."Here endeth the lesson." jms ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVE THE LUCKY To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: Writing Date: Sun Jan 12 18:16:25 CST 1997 Message number: 53 Reply to message number: 52 DR> Nothing is served by then saying that the opinion is rude. That's DR> what kills most people who want to be writers; they get easily DR> offended, they don't want to do the work, they don't like the way the DR> field works, they want it to work the way they THINK it should work DR> rather than the way it works. There's a part of me that always gets honked off by reading stuff like this. Yes, I realize that writing is a difficult task. Yes, I realize that the vast majority of people who think they are writers are just self-deluded little egotists (I know one; she's dating one of my friends). But let me borrow his metaphor for awhile: Chicken, as long as you can remember, has been your favorite food. You've eaten it for as many meals as you could muster and never lost your craving. You've had it as many different ways as you could prepare it, from as many different manufacturers as you could find. Sure, you have favorite manufacturers (this company raises a really plump chicken that's good for roasting and chopping into stew, while this other company raises a meaty chicken that just begs for the grill). Then one day, you think, "You know, this recipe I have would work even better if somebody would feed to their chickens." ( is the technical term for some undefined, indescribable item.) So you march off to MikelMart, Inc., ask to see the president, and pitch your idea. Halfway through, he cuts you off..."Sorry, kid, but you're off your rocker. Nobody would buy chickens fed on . Go away." You go to the other manufacturers, but you get the same story over and over. Finally, crushed, you just give up. Editors, by and large, are openminded people who, if they had the time, would be genuinely helpful to young writers. Unfortunately, they have to answer to publishers, who are largely in the business because there are a lot of gullible sheep off whom they can make big booty. Writing, the way it's practiced by J. Michael S. and company is an industry, and you have to fit their ideas of what will sell, or be ignored. Don't get me wrong; I liked the article. _Bablyon 5_, JMS's baby, is one of the deeper SF engines out there (certainly it has more interesting characters than Star Trek: Voyager--by a long, long shot). But he's making a clarion call for conformity, something my own favorite SF writer, Philip K. Dick, would have despised. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVE THE LUCKY To: All Subject: Philip K. Dick Date: Sun Jan 12 18:40:11 CST 1997 Message number: 54 Reply to message number: unavailable (This piece originally appeared as "Afterthought by the Author" in a collection entitled, _The Best of Philip K. Dick_. I have reprinted it from Volume 5 of _The Collected Stories of Philip K. Dick_ in violation of the copyright. Please don't turn me in.) The basic premise dominating my stories is that if I ever met an extraterrestrial intelligence (more commonly called a "creature from outer space") I would find that I had more to say to it than to my next-door neighbor. What the people on my block do is to bring in their newspaper and mail and drive off in their cars. They have no other outdoor habits except mowing their lawns. I went next door one time to check into the indoor habits. They were watching TV. Could you, in writing an sf novel, postulate a culture on these premises? Surely such a society doesn't exist, except maybe in my imagination. And there isn't much imagination involved. The way out of living in an under-imaginative figment is to make contact, in your own mind, with other civilizations as yet unborn. You're doing the same thing when you read sf that I'm doing when I write it; your neighbor probably is as alien a life form to you as mine is to me. The stories in this collection are all attempts at at reception--at listening to voices from another place, very far off, sounds quite faint but important. They only come late at night, when the background din and gabble of our world have faded out. When the newspapers have been read, the TV sets shut off, the cars parked in their various garages. Then, faintly, I hear voices from another star. (I clocked it once, and reception is best between 3:00 AM and 4:45 AM.) Of course, I don't usually tell people this when they ask, "Say, where do you get your ideas?" I just say I don't know. It's safer. Let's take these stories, then, and assume them to be (one) garbled receptions mixed with pure inventiveness, and (two) an alternative to dog food commercials in living color on TV. Both bypass what is immediately available. Both assumptions reach out as far as possible. Both sweep the void and return with something to report: that the universe is full of scheming, living, busy entities intent on their own pursuits, oblivious to the interests ot others, alienated from their next-door neighbors, and, most of all, wondering who they can contact when all else fails. Wondering who lives as they do; wondering, maybe, about us. The majority of these stories were written when my life was simpler and made sense. I could tell the difference between the real world and the world I wrote about. I used to dig in the garden, and there is nothing fantastic or ultradimensional about crab grass...unless you are an sf writer, in which case pretty soon you are viewing crab grass with suspicion. What are its real motives? And who sent it in the first place? The question I always found myself asking was, What is it _really_? It only looks like crab grass. That's what they want me to think it is. One day the crab grass suits sill ball off and their true identity will be revealed. By then the Pentagon will be full of crab grass and it'll be too late. The crab grass, or what we took to be crab grass, will dictate terms. My earlier stories had such premises. Later, when my personal life became complicated and full of unfortunate convolutions, worries about crab grass got lost somewhere. I became educated to the fact that the greatest pain does not come zooming down from a distant planet, but up from the depths of the heart. Of course, both could happen; your wife and child could leave you, and you could be sitting alone in your empty house with nothing to live for, and in additon the Martians could bore through the roof and get you. As to what the stories in this collection mean, I will not cite the usual copout that the story must speak for itself, but rather the copout that I don't really know. I mean, above and beyond what it says, which is what any reader can extract from them. One time a whole class of kids wrote me about my story _The Father-Thing_, and every kid wanted to know where I got my idea. That was easy, because it was based on childhood memories of my father; but later on, in rereading my answers, I noticed that I never said the same thing twice. With all intent at honesty, I gave each kid a different answer. I guess this is what makes a fiction writer. Give him six facts and he'll link them together first one way and then another, on and on until you forcibly stop him. (continued next post) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVE THE LUCKY To: All Subject: Philip K. Dick (cont.) Date: Sun Jan 12 18:52:09 CST 1997 Message number: 55 Reply to message number: unavailable Literary criticism, probably, should be left to the critics, since that's their job. One time I read in a distinguished book of criticism on sf that in my novel _The Man in the High Castle_ the pin which the character Juliana used to hold her blouse together symbolized all which held together the themes, ideas, and subplots of the novel itself--which I hadn't known when I wrote that section. But what if Juliana, also not knowing it, had removed the pin? Would the novel have fallen apart? Or at least come open in the middle and exposed a whole lot of cleavage (which was why her boy friend insisted she put on the pin in the first place)? I will do my best, though, to unpin these stories. The advantage of the story over the novel is that in the story you catch the protagonist at the climax of his life, but in the novel you've got to follow him from the day he was born to the day he dies (or nearly so). Open any novel at random and usually what is happening is either dull or unimportant. The only way to redeem this is through style. It is not what happened but how it is told. Pretty soon the professional novelist acquires the skill of describing everything with style, and content vanishes. In a story, though, you can't get away with this. Something important has to happen. I think this is why gifted professional fiction writers wind up writing novels. Once their style is perfected, they have it made. Virginia Woolf, for instance, wound up writing about nothing at all. In these stories, though, I remember that _in every case_ before I sat down to write, I had to have an idea. There had to be some real concept: an actual thing from which the story was built. It must always be possible to say, "Did you read the story _about_..." and then capsulize what it was about. If the essence of sf is the idea (as Dr. Willis McNelly maintains), if indeed the idea is the true "hero", then the sf story probably remains the sf form par excellence, with the sf novel a fanning out, and expansion into all ramifications. Most of my own novels are expansions of earlier stories, or fusions of several stories--superimpositions. The germ lay in the story; in a very real sense, that was its true distillate. And some of my best ideas, which meant the most to me, I could never manage to expand into novel form. They exist only as stories, despite all my efforts. (1976) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Dave The Lucky Subject: Re: Writing Date: Mon Jan 13 12:34:01 CST 1997 Message number: 56 Reply to message number: 53 DR> Nothing is served by then saying that the opinion is rude. That's DR> what kills most people who want to be writers; they get easily DR> offended, they don't want to do the work, they don't like the way the DR> field works, they want it to work the way they THINK it should work DR> rather than the way it works. DT> DT> There's a part of me that always gets honked off by reading stuff like this You'd really have to see the context this message was posted in though, the gent that jms was replying to was somewhat rude and more than a tad bit arrogant. I poosted this biot because I liked the analogy, and the idea that ideas in writing are next to useless unless you can follow through and develop those ideas into a readable story. DT> than Star Trek: Voyager--by a long, long shot). But he's making a clarion DT> call for conformity, something my own favorite SF writer, Philip K. Dick, DT> would have despised. I really don't think he's calling for conformity, only the recognition that writing isn't just a cerebreal flash, it's a process. The more you do it, the better you get. At some point, you stpop wondering whether or not you're a writer ... you just know it, you just are. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVE THE LUCKY To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: Writing Date: Mon Jan 13 16:05:06 CST 1997 Message number: 57 Reply to message number: 56 DR> You'd really have to see the context this message was posted in though, th DR> gent that jms was replying to was somewhat rude and more than a tad bit DR> arrogant. I believe you; I know the type. Still, the idea of the "wise old bird" dispensing sage advice from the mountaintop is irritating to me. It's one thing to want to make the world better, it's quite another to want to get your licks in. (I believe jms used the word "lazy"--is this objective?) DR> I really don't think he's calling for conformity, only the recognition tha DR> writing isn't just a cerebreal flash, it's a process. Writing, of any sort, is a process, I agree. However, jms is speaking as a gatekeeper of security in "success", not as a guru or teacher of the way. It's just as easy to develop the "process" of mediocre writing for the corporate sf machine as it is to write truly meaningful work, probably even easier. There is an ancient Zen saying, "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him." This saying, insofar as any Zen saying has meaning, implies that once one is on the path, any exterior "teacher" can only impede the progress toward true knowledge, however enlightened that "teacher" might be. DR> At some point, you stpop wondering whether or not you're a DR> writer ... you just know it, you just are. Absolutely. Now if only so many out there weren't convinced that the point you recognize yourself a writer isn't the point at which you sign your first million-dollar contract... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: Dave The Lucky Subject: Re: Writing Date: Wed Jan 15 14:44:41 CST 1997 Message number: 58 Reply to message number: 57 DT> There is an ancient Zen saying, "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill DT> him." This saying, insofar as any Zen saying has meaning, implies that onc The Church of the Subgenius has something like this. If you ever see J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, you MUST kill him. Why? Simply to prove that he's not a phony, you see the REAL "Bob" will always come back to life - not so for counterfeits. Quite a scheme indeed.. *teebo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: COSIMA To: Big Teebo Subject: Re: Writing Date: Wed Jan 15 16:44:08 CST 1997 Message number: 59 Reply to message number: 58 DT> There is an ancient Zen saying, "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill DT> him." This saying, insofar as any Zen saying has meaning, implies that onc BT> BT> The Church of the Subgenius has something like this. If you ever see J.R. BT> "Bob" Dobbs, you MUST kill him. Why? Simply to prove that he's not a phon BT> you see the REAL "Bob" will always come back to life - not so for BT> counterfeits. Quite a scheme indeed.. BT> BT> *teebo * are you sure? i always took that koan to mean, kill your *idea* of what the buddha is- because the minute you think/know you can quantify it and identify it, then it's no longer buddha, but just something that's defined by your own narrow mind. 'kill the buddha' to me means, kill your own idea of what the infinite means- because you'll never grasp even one corner of it. or so it seems to me -=c=- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVE THE LUCKY To: Cosima Subject: Re: Writing Date: Thu Jan 16 15:06:22 CST 1997 Message number: 60 Reply to message number: 59 DT> There is an ancient Zen saying, "If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill DT> him." This saying, insofar as any Zen saying has meaning, implies that onc C> are you sure? i always took that koan to mean, kill your *idea* of what the C> buddha is- because the minute you think/know you can quantify it and identif C> it, then it's no longer buddha, but just something that's defined by your ow C> narrow mind. That's the great thing about Zen, Cosima. It's one of the few areas of knowledge in which everybody can be right. One of the ultimate teachings of Zen is that "meaning" is an illusion, something that we create in an attempt to quantify the chaotic and confusing material of existence. (Of course, by saying that, I have imposed my own "meaning" which has corrupted the truth of Zen with base worldly concerns. Only you can determine what is true.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: Cosima Subject: Re: Writing Date: Sat Jan 18 05:00:21 CST 1997 Message number: 61 Reply to message number: 59 BT> The Church of the Subgenius has something like this. If you ever see J.R. BT> "Bob" Dobbs, you MUST kill him. Why? Simply to prove that he's not a phon BT> you see the REAL "Bob" will always come back to life - not so for BT> counterfeits. Quite a scheme indeed.. C> are you sure? i always took that koan to mean, kill your *idea* of what the C> buddha is- because the minute you think/know you can quantify it and identif C> it, then it's no longer buddha, but just something that's defined by your ow Oh yes, I'm sure that's exactly what it means in Zen, but I was drawing a comparison with The Church of the Subgenius. (You know, 90s new age cult phenomena...) *teebo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: REV. THORN To: Big Teebo Subject: Re: Writing Date: Sat Jan 18 12:44:24 CST 1997 Message number: 62 Reply to message number: 61 BT> Oh yes, I'm sure that's exactly what it means in Zen, but I was drawing a BT> comparison with The Church of the Subgenius. (You know, 90s new age cult BT> phenomena...) what?! The Church of the SubGenius has been saving/deciving people since the 50's. aaron ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: COSIMA To: Dave The Lucky Subject: Re: Writing Date: Sun Jan 19 17:00:10 CST 1997 Message number: 63 Reply to message number: 60 DT> That's the great thing about Zen, Cosima. It's one of the few areas of DT> knowledge in which everybody can be right. One of the ultimate teachings o * yup...makes it either the profoundest truth of the universe...or the biggest bullshit scam. * DT> Zen with base worldly concerns. Only you can determine what is true.) * well, not really. if a car smashes me, i'll die...whether i accept it or not. i always have trouble with zen when i get into the practical stuff. -=c=- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: COSIMA To: Rev. Thorn Subject: Re: Writing Date: Sun Jan 19 17:02:26 CST 1997 Message number: 64 Reply to message number: 62 BT> Oh yes, I'm sure that's exactly what it means in Zen, but I was drawing a BT> comparison with The Church of the Subgenius. (You know, 90s new age cult BT> phenomena...) RT> RT> what?! The Church of the SubGenius has been saving/deciving people since th RT> 50's. RT> RT> aaron * was just gonna say that to teebo...when i hit Q for quit rather than / for quote and lost the messaage i went to a church of the subgenius meeting and had a rev. bob dobbs bumper sticker in the early 80's...they came to the walker and did a presentation. funny as hell. -=c=- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: Rev. Thorn Subject: Re: Writing Date: Mon Jan 20 02:59:31 CST 1997 Message number: 65 Reply to message number: 62 BT> comparison with The Church of the Subgenius. (You know, 90s new age cult BT> phenomena...) RT> what?! The Church of the SubGenius has been saving/deciving people since t RT> 50's. Some certain REVERANDS don't know there history too well. The church went PUBLIC in the 80s, it certainly couldn't be very popular before that among a large portion of people if no one knew about it. Even in the 80s it wasn't very big, only in the 90s where everybody's CyBeR and they are looking for something new and exciting to latch onto (dum pinx) does it become a Cult Phenomena. Nothing's a phenomena these days unless it's mentioned in Wired. It's true, I read it there. *teebo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: BIG TEEBO Subject: Re: Writing Date: Mon Jan 20 09:38:55 CST 1997 Message number: 66 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Big Teebo : BT> Nothing's a phenomena these days unless it's mentioned in Wired. BT> It's true, I read it there. What about John Travolta, doens't he count? The true mark of genius is the ability to convince other people that you're smart, the ability to feign expertise in an area in which you know nothing. By that logic, the people at Wired are all Nobel cantidates. ... Jesus saves, Allah protects, Cthulhu thinks you'd make a nice sandwich ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: REV. THORN To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: Writing Date: Tue Jan 21 14:00:01 CST 1997 Message number: 67 Reply to message number: 66 DR> What about John Travolta, doens't he count? speaking of which, have you all heard of the supposed german 'prosecution' of scientologists? hehe. aaron ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: REV. THORN To: Big Teebo Subject: Re: Writing Date: Tue Jan 21 14:00:49 CST 1997 Message number: 68 Reply to message number: 65 BT> Some certain REVERANDS don't know there history too well. The church went BT> PUBLIC in the 80s, it certainly couldn't be very popular before that among BT> large portion of people if no one knew about it. Even in the 80s it wasn't BT> very big, only in the 90s where everybody's CyBeR and they are looking for BT> something new and exciting to latch onto (dum pinx) does it become a Cult BT> Phenomena. Nothing's a phenomena these days unless it's mentioned in Wired BT> It's true, I read it there. just because it wasn't mentioned in wired, or was it very popular, it still was, and is, a phenomena. wired wasn't around in the 50's, dork. :P aaron ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: REV. THORN Subject: Re: Writing Date: Wed Jan 22 03:58:34 CST 1997 Message number: 69 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Rev. Thorn : DR> What about John Travolta, doens't he count? RT> speaking of which, have you all heard of the supposed german RT> 'prosecution' of scientologists? They might very well be persecuted in Germany, which is not a good thing. But on the other hand, they've been persecuting people for releasing proprietary church secrets, like how the aliens are in charge of everything. So I have sort of mixed feelings on it really, I have no love for the scientologists ... but that doesn't necessarily mean that they should be harassed for being stupid. ... Success is just a matter of luck. Ask any failure. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Rev. Thorn Subject: Re: Writing Date: Thu Jan 23 00:22:45 CST 1997 Message number: 70 Reply to message number: 67 RT> speaking of which, have you all heard of the supposed german 'prosecution' RT> scientologists? RT> It is not "supposed." It is real. The German Government is still carrying a lot of baggage from WWII, and has defined scientology as asocial cult rather than a church. Interestingly, so does Travolta. I saw him on a TV show saying that many scientologists also belong to religious groups, such as Jewish scientologists, Presbyterian scientologists, etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: REV. THORN To: Froggy Subject: re: writing Date: Sat Jan 25 10:36:49 CST 1997 Message number: 71 Reply to message number: 70 F> It is not "supposed." It is real. The German Government is still F> carrying a lot of baggage from WWII, and has defined scientology as asocial F> cult rather than a church. Interestingly, so does Travolta. I saw him on a F> TV show saying that many scientologists also belong to religious groups, suc F> as Jewish scientologists, Presbyterian scientologists, etc. ok, i just said 'supposed' because i wasn't sure if i heard it somewhere legit, or made it up. yikes. aaron ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVE THE LUCKY To: Cosima Subject: Re: Writing Date: Sun Jan 26 17:12:44 CST 1997 Message number: 72 Reply to message number: 63 DT> That's the great thing about Zen, Cosima. It's one of the few areas of DT> knowledge in which everybody can be right. One of the ultimate teachings o C> * C> yup...makes it either the profoundest truth of the universe...or the biggest C> bullshit scam. The good news is that you get to decide. With most "religious" philosophies, you don't have that option. DT> Zen with base worldly concerns. Only you can determine what is true.) C> * C> well, not really. if a car smashes me, i'll die...whether i accept it or not C> i always have trouble with zen when i get into the practical stuff. Ah, but your concern with cars relates to physics, not Zen. Zen can only tell you that the car, life, and worldly concern are all veils hiding larger truths. You must find them for yourself. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVE THE LUCKY To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: Writing Date: Sun Jan 26 17:14:58 CST 1997 Message number: 73 Reply to message number: 66 DR> The true mark of genius is the ability to convince other people that DR> you're smart, the ability to feign expertise in an area in which you DR> know nothing. I read somewhere that ability is always jealous of the skills of others, but genius always recognizes true talent. Still, by your definition, I'm a genius, and by my own, I'm not, so I'll accept your definition. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: COSIMA To: Dave The Lucky Subject: Re: Writing Date: Mon Jan 27 03:21:08 CST 1997 Message number: 74 Reply to message number: 72 DT> Ah, but your concern with cars relates to physics, not Zen. Zen can only DT> tell you that the car, life, and worldly concern are all veils hiding large DT> truths. You must find them for yourself. * i agree. if i didn't have to *live* in the world, i wouldn't be so concerned. -=c=- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: COSIMA To: All Subject: zen buddhism Date: Sun Feb 09 09:03:59 CST 1997 Message number: 75 Reply to message number: unavailable hi... dang...i just lost an email i was reading where someone (specter?) was asking for references for sources on zen buddhism. sorry i'm answering it here, but i didn't remember what conference it was in! * i would recommend _Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind._ by Suzuki. it's pretty much a major text. then there's _zen and the art of motorxycle maintenance_ (i forget the author). -=c=- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SPECTER To: Cosima Subject: Re: zen buddhism Date: Sun Feb 09 09:52:03 CST 1997 Message number: 76 Reply to message number: 75 C> dang...i just lost an email i was reading where someone (specter?) was askin C> for references for sources on zen buddhism. sorry i'm answering it here, but C> didn't remember what conference it was in! yeah, me. C> i would recommend _Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind._ by Suzuki. it's pretty much a C> major text. then there's _zen and the art of motorxycle maintenance_ (i C> forget the author). Thanks... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: All Subject: Yah Date: Mon Mar 24 12:00:09 CST 1997 Message number: 77 Reply to message number: unavailable On the evening news, CBS suggested that Fargo win an Oscar for "Best Foreign language film." Yah! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LUPUS To: Froggy Subject: Re: Yah Date: Sun Apr 06 16:50:29 CDT 1997 Message number: 78 Reply to message number: 77 F> On the evening news, CBS suggested that Fargo win an Oscar for "Bes F> Foreign language film." Yah! The whole fargo thing makes me mad... I lived in Texas until about two years ago and my family still lives there. I talked to them after they saw the movie and they all thought that was the way "northern" people talk. I tried to explain that with the widespread use of the telephone and television has virtually eliminated strong accents(excluding kentucky and arkansas) Most people cant tell that i lived in "the land of the hicks", untill i say hoowdy or yeeeeeha! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LUPUS To: Lupus Subject: Re: Yah Date: Sun Apr 06 16:52:54 CDT 1997 Message number: 79 Reply to message number: 78 F> On the evening news, CBS suggested that Fargo win an Oscar for "Bes F> Foreign language film." Yah! L> The whole fargo thing makes me mad... I lived in Texas until about two years L> ago and my family still lives there. I talked to them after they saw the L> movie and they all thought that was the way "northern" people talk. I tried L> to explain that with the widespread use of the telephone and television has L> virtually eliminated strong accents(excluding kentucky and arkansas) Most L> people cant tell that i lived in "the land of the hicks", untill i say hoowd L> or yeeeeeha! sorry i forgot to proofread +) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Lupus Subject: Re: Yah Date: Sun Apr 06 20:37:21 CDT 1997 Message number: 80 Reply to message number: 78 L> ago and my family still lives there. I talked to them after they saw the L> movie and they all thought that was the way "northern" people talk. I tried L> to explain that with the widespread use of the telephone and television has L> virtually eliminated strong accents(excluding kentucky and arkansas) Most L> people cant tell that i lived in "the land of the hicks", untill i say hoowd L> or yeeeeeha! L> I was born and raised in Appalachia, and after being out of there for more than 30 years and living in many other places, I still say things like, "Set that down rat cheer." I have an accent that is noticeable. For a time in my life I tried to drop the accent with some success, but it is still there. I finally decided to let it go. It is part of my identity, my background, and I am proud of it. The promos that I saw about Fargo described the accent as "Swedish." Well, it is, but actual Minnesotan is a mixture of Swedish, Norwegian, and French -- overlaid with a touch of Ojibwe and English. I thought the lingo in the movie was a bit too much, but I actually liked it. Like it or not, it is useful to learn about the culture of a new place and enjoy it. I was involved in a flood in Minnesota in 1979. The day after the water subsided, a sign appeared in the window of a local small business. It said, "Uff da, it was wet." I thought it was really funny, and something I would have NEVER seen in my home state. But it was not put there by a movie company. It was put there by the Norwegian owner of the business. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Lupus Subject: Re: Yah Date: Sun Apr 06 20:42:57 CDT 1997 Message number: 81 Reply to message number: 79 L> ago and my family still lives there. I talked to them after they saw the L> movie and they all thought that was the way "northern" people talk. I tried L> to explain that with the widespread use of the telephone and television has Maybe they should learn a little about local dialects. Kentucky is "southern" and so is Texas, but there is a clear difference in the language. My aunt in Kentucky says. "I swan," where most people would say "I swear." I have never heard a Texan say that. Similarly, people of Minnesota and Maine are both Northern, and both very different. Then there are the Canadians. They are northern, but a whole different thing, eh? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: Field Guide to CThinking Date: Thu May 01 12:48:37 CDT 1997 Message number: 82 Reply to message number: unavailable Ä Area: Skeptic ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ From: Draconian Read: Yes Replied: No Subj: Critical Thinking Handboo ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Skeptical Inquirer, Winter 1990 A Field Guide to Critical Thinking James Lett There are many reasons for the popularity of paranormal beliefs in the United States today, including: 1. the irresponsibility of the mass media, who exploit the public taste for nonsense, 2. the irrationality of the American world-view, which supports such unsupportable claims as life after death and the efficacy of the polygraph, and 3. the ineffectiveness of public education, which generally fails to teach students the essential skills of critical thinking. As a college professor, I am especially concerned with this third problem. Most of the freshman and sophomore students in my classes simply do not know how to draw reasonable conclusions from the evidence. At most, they've been taught in high school what to think; few of them know how to think. In an attempt to remedy this problem at my college, I've developed an elective course called "Anthropology and the Paranormal." The course examines the complete range of paranormal beliefs in contemporary American culture, from precognition and psychokinesis to channeling and cryptozoology and everything between and beyond, including astrology, UFOs, and creationism. I teach the students very little about anthropological theories and even less about anthropological terminology. Instead, I try to communicate the essence of the anthropological perspective, by teaching them, indirectly, what the scientific method is all about. I do so by teaching them how to evaluate evidence. I give them six simple rules to follow when considering any claim, and then show them how to apply those six rules to the examination of any paranormal claim. The six rules of evidential reasoning are my own distillation and simplification of the scientific method. To make it easier for students to remember these half-dozen guidelines, I've coined an acronym for them: Ignoring the vowels, the letters in the word "FiLCHeRS" stand for the rules of Falsifiability, Logic, Comprehensiveness, Honesty, Replicability, and Sufficiency. Apply these six rules to the evidence offered for any claim, I tell my students, and no one will ever be able to sneak up on you and steal your belief. You'll be filch-proof. ... The Energizer Immortal: It keeps dying, and dying, and dying... ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: Date: Thu May 01 12:48:38 CDT 1997 Message number: 83 Reply to message number: unavailable Falsifiability It must be possible to conceive of evidence that would prove the claim false. It may sound paradoxical, but in order for any claim to be true, it must be falsifiable. The rule of falsifiability is a guarantee that if the claim is false, the evidence will prove it false; and if the claim is true, the evidence will not disprove it (in which case the claim can be tentatively accepted as true until such time as evidence is brought forth that does disprove it). The rule of falsifiability, in short, says that the evidence must matter, and as such it is the first and most important and most fundamental rule of evidential reasoning. The rule of falsifiability is essential for this reason: If nothing conceivable could ever disprove the claim, then the evidence that does exist would not matter; it would be pointless to even examine the evidence, because the conclusion is already known -- the claim is invulnerable to any possible evidence. This would not mean, however, that the claim is true; instead it would mean that the claim is meaningless. This is so because it is impossible -- logically impossible -- for any claim to be true no matter what. For every true claim, you can always conceive of evidence that would make the claim untrue -- in other words, again, every true claim is falsifiable. For example, the true claim that the life span of human beings is less than 200 years is falsifiable; it would be falsified if a single human being were to live to be 200 years old. Similarly, the true claim that water freezes at 32 degrees F is falsifiable; it would be falsified if water were to freeze at, say, 34 degrees F. Each of these claims is firmly established as scientific "fact," and we do not expect either claim ever to be falsified; however, the point is that either could be. Any claim that could not be falsified would be devoid of any propositional content; that is, it would not be making a factual assertion -- it would instead be making an emotive statement, a declaration of the way the claimant feels about the world. Nonfalsifiable claims do communicate information, but what they describe is the claimant's value orientation. They communicate nothing whatsoever of a factual nature, and hence are neither true nor false. Nonfalsifiable statements are propositionally vacuous. There are two principal ways in which the rule of falsifiability can be violated -- two ways, in other words, of making nonfalsifiable claims. The first variety of nonfalsifiable statements is the undeclared claim: a statement that is so broad or vague that it lacks any propositional content. The undeclared claim is basically unintelligible and consequently meaningless. Consider, for example, the claim that crystal therapists can use pieces of quartz to restore balance and harmony to a person's spiritual energy? What does it mean to have unbalanced spiritual energy? How is the condition recognized and diagnosed? What evidence would prove that someone's unbalanced spiritual energy had been -- or had not been -- balanced by the application of crystal therapy? Most New Age wonders, in fact, consist of similarly undeclared claims that dissolve completely when exposed to the solvent of rationality. The undeclared claim has the advantage that virtually any evidence that could be adduced could be interpreted as congruent with the claim, and for that reason it is especially popular among paranormalists who claim precognitive powers. Jeane Dixon, for example, predicted that 1987 would be a year "filled with changes" for Caroline Kennedy. Dixon also predicted that Jack Kemp would "face major disagreements with the rest of his party" in 1987 and that "world-wide drug terror" would be "unleashed by narcotics czars" in the same year. She further revealed that Dan Rather "may [or may not] be hospitalized" in 1988, and that Whitney Houston's "greatest problem" in 1986 would be "balancing her personal life against her career." The undeclared claim boils down to a statement that can be translated as "Whatever will be, will be." The second variety of nonfalsifiable statements, which is even more popular among paranormalists, involves the use of the multiple out, that is, an inexhaustible series of excuses intended to explain away the evidence that would seem to falsify the claim. Creationists, for example, claim that the universe is no more than 10,000 years old. They do so despite the fact that we can observe stars that are billions of light-years from the earth, which means that the light must have left those stars billions of years ago, and which proves that the universe must be billions of years old. How then do the creationists respond to this falsification of their claim? By suggesting that God must have created the light already on the way from those distant star at the moment of creation 10,000 years ago. No conceivable piece of evidence, of course, could disprove that claim. Additional examples of multiple outs abound in the realm of the paranormal. UFO proponents, faced with a lack of reliable physical or photographic evidence to buttress the claims, point to a secret "government conspiracy" that is allegedly preventing the release of evidence that would support their case. Psychic healers say they can heal you if you have enough faith in their psychic powers. Psychokinetics say they can bend spoons with their minds if they are not exposed to negative vibrations from skeptical observers. Tarot readers can predict your fate if you're sincere in your desire for knowledge. The multiple out means, in effect, "Heads I win, tails you lose." ... I'd rather ride the Wave than wallow in QWKsand! ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: Date: Thu May 01 12:48:39 CDT 1997 Message number: 84 Reply to message number: unavailable Logic Any argument offered as evidence in support of any claim must be sound. An argument is said to be "valid" if is conclusion follows unavoidably from its premises; it is "sound" if it is valid and if all the premises are true. The rule of logic thus governs the validity of inference. Although philosophers have codified and named the various forms of valid arguments, it is not necessary to master a course in formal logic in order to apply the rules of inference consistently and correctly. An invalid argument can be recognized by the simple method of counterexample: If you can conceive of a single imaginable instance whereby the conclusion would not necessarily follow from the premises even if the premises were true, then the argument is invalid. Consider the following syllogism for example: All dogs have fleas; Xavier has fleas; therefore Xavier is a dog. That argument is invalid because a single flea-ridden feline named Xavier would provide an effective counterexample. If an argument is invalid, then it is, by definition, unsound. Not all valid arguments are sound, however. Consider this example: All dogs have fleas; Xavier is a dog; therefore Xavier has fleas. That argument is unsound, even though it is valid, because the first premise is false: All dogs do not have fleas. To determine whether a valid argument is sound is frequently problematic; knowing whether a given premise is true or false often demands additional knowledge about the claim that may require empirical investigation. If the argument passes these two tests, however -- if it is both valid and sound -- then the conclusion can be embraced with certainty. The rule of logic is frequently violated by pseudoscientists. Erich von D„niken, who singlehandedly popularized the ancient-astronaut mythology in the 1970s, wrote many books in which he offered invalid and unsound arguments with benumbing regularity (see Omohundro 1976). In CHARIOTS OF THE GODS? he was not above making arguments that were both logically invalid and factually inaccurate -- in other words, arguments that were doubly unsound. For example, von D„niken argues that the map of the world made by the sixteenth- century Turkish admiral Piri Re'is is so "astoundingly accurate" that it could only have been made from satellite photographs. Not only is the argument invalid (any number of imaginable techniques other than satellite photography could result in an "astoundingly accurate" map), but the premise is simply wrong -- the Piri Re'is map, in fact, contains many gross inaccuracies (see Story 1981). ... Xpress...The totally cool way to do mail! ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: Date: Thu May 01 12:48:40 CDT 1997 Message number: 85 Reply to message number: unavailable Comprehensiveness The evidence offered in support of any claim must he exhaustive -- that is all of the available evidence must be considered. For obvious reasons, it is never reasonable to consider only the evidence that supports a theory and to discard the evidence that contradicts it. This rule is straightforward and self-apparent, and it requires little explication or justification. Nevertheless, it is a rule that is frequently broken by proponents of paranormal claims and by those who adhere to paranormal beliefs. For example, the proponents of biorhythm theory are fond of pointing to airplane crashes that occurred on days when the pilot, copilot, anchor navigator were experiencing critically low points in their intellectual, emotional, and/or physical cycles. The evidence considered by the biorhythm apologists, however, does not include the even larger number of airplane crashes that occurred when the crews were experiencing high or neutral points in their biorhythm cycles (Hines 1988:160). Similarly, when people believe that Jeane Dixon has precognitive ability because she predicted the 1988 election of George Bush (which she did, two months before the election, when every social scientist, media maven, and private citizen in the country was making the same prognostication), they typically ignore the thousands of forecasts that Dixon has made that have failed to come true (such as her predictions that John F. Kennedy would not win the presidency in 1960, that World War III would begin in 1958, and that Fidel Castro would die in 1969). If you are willing to be selective in the evidence you consider, you could reasonably conclude that the earth is flat. ... Go straight to the docs. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200! ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: Date: Thu May 01 12:48:41 CDT 1997 Message number: 86 Reply to message number: unavailable Honesty The evidence offered in support of any claim must be evaluated without self- deception. The rule of honesty is a corollary to the rule of comprehensiveness. When you have examined all of the evidence, it is essential that you be honest with yourself about the results of that examination. If the weight of the evidence contradicts the claim, then you are required to abandon belief in that claim. The obverse, of course, would hold as well. The rule of honesty, like the rule of comprehensiveness, is frequently violated by both proponents and adherents of paranormal beliefs. Parapsychologists violate this rule when they conclude, after numerous subsequent experiments have failed to replicate initially positive psi results, that psi must be an elusive phenomenon. (Applying Occam's Razor, the more honest conclusion would be that the original positive result must have been a coincidence.) Believers in the paranormal violate this rule when they conclude, after observing a "psychic" surreptitiously bend a spoon with his hands, that he only cheats sometimes. In practice, the rule of honesty usually boils down to an injunction against breaking the rule of falsifiability by taking a multiple out. There is more to it than that, however: The rule of honesty means that you must accept the obligation to come to a rational conclusion once you have examined all the evidence. If the overwhelming weight of all the evidence falsifies your belief, then you must conclude that the belief is false, and you must face the implications of that conclusion forthrightly. In the face of overwhelmingly negative evidence, neutrality and agnosticism are no better than credulity and faith. Denial, avoidance, rationalization, an all the other familiar mechanisms of self-deception would constitute violations of the rule of honesty. In my view, this rule alone would all but invalidate the entire discipline of parapsychology. After more than century of systematic, scholarly research, the psi hypothesis remains wholly unsubstantiated and unsupportable; parapsychologists have failed, as Ray Hyman (1985:7) observes, to produce "any consistent evidence for paranormality that can withstand acceptable scientific scrutiny." From all indications, the number of parapsychologists who observe the rule of honesty pales in comparison with the number who delude themselves. Veteran psychic investigator Eric Dingwall (1985:162) summed up his extensive experience in parapsychological research with this observation: "After sixty years' experience and personal acquaintance with most of the leading parapsychologists of that period I do not think I could name a half dozen whom I could call objective students who honestly wished to discover the truth." ... Religion cannot sink lower than when it is raised to a state religion. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: Date: Thu May 01 12:48:42 CDT 1997 Message number: 87 Reply to message number: unavailable Replicability If the evidence for any claim is based upon an experimental result, or if the evidence offered in support of any claim could logically be explained as coincidental, then it is necessary for the evidence to be repeated in subsequent experiments or trials. The rule of replicability provides a safeguard against the possibility of error, fraud, or coincidence. A single experimental result is never adequate in and of itself, whether the experiment concerns the production of nuclear fusion or the existence of telepathic ability. Any experiment, no matter how carefully designed and executed, is always subject to the possibility of implicit bias or undetected error. The rule of replicability, which requires independent observers to follow the same procedures and to achieve the same results, is an effective way of correcting bias or error, even if the bias or error remains permanently unrecognized. If the experimental results are the product of deliberate fraud, the rule of replicability will ensure that the experiment will eventually be performed by honest researchers. If the phenomenon in question could conceivably be the product of coincidence, then the phenomenon must be replicated before the hypothesis of coincidence can be rejected. If coincidence is in fact the explanation for the phenomenon, then the phenomenon will not be duplicated in subsequent trials, and the hypothesis of coincidence will be confirmed; but if coincidence is not the explanation, then the phenomenon may be duplicated, and an explanation other than coincidence will have to be sought. If I correctly predict the next roll of the dice, you should demand that I duplicate the feat before granting that my prediction was anything but a coincidence. The rule of replicability is regularly violated by parapsychologists, who are especially fond of misinterpreting coincidences. The famous "psychic sleuth Gerard Croiset", for example, allegedly solved numerous baffling crimes and located hundreds of missing persons in a career that spanned five decades, from the 1940s until his death in 1980. The truth is that the overwhelming majority of Croiset's predictions were either vague and nonfalsifiable or simply wrong. Given the fact that Croiset made thousands of predictions during his lifetime, it is hardly surprising that he enjoyed one or two chance "hits." The late Dutch parapsychologist Wilhelm Tenhaeff, however, seized upon those "very few prize cases" to argue that Croiset possessed demonstrated psi powers (Hoebens 1986a:130). That was a clear violation of the rule of replicability, and could not have been taken as evidence of Croiset's psi abilities even if the "few prize cases" had been true. (In fact, however, much of Tenhaeff's data was fraudulent -- see Hoebens 1986b.) ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: Date: Thu May 01 12:48:43 CDT 1997 Message number: 88 Reply to message number: unavailable Sufficiency The evidence offered in support of any claim must be adequate to establish the truth of that claim, with these stipulations: 1. the burden of proof for any claim rests on the claimant, 2. extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence, and 3. evidence based upon authority and/or testimony is always inadequate for any paranormal claim The burden of proof always rests with the claimant for the simple reason that the absence of disconfirming evidence is not the same as the presence of confirming evidence. This rule is frequently violated by proponents of paranormal claims, who argue that, because their claims have not been disproved, they have therefore been proved. (UFO buffs, for example, argue that because skeptics have not explained every UFO sighting, some UFO sightings must be extraterrestrial spacecraft.) Consider the implications of that kind of reasoning: If I claim that Adolf Hitler is alive and well and living in Argentina, how could you disprove my claim? Since the claim is logically possible, the best you could do (in the absence of unambiguous forensic evidence) is to show that the claim is highly improbable -- but that would not disprove it. The fact that you cannot prove that Hitler is not living in Argentina, however, does not mean that I have proved that he is. It only means that I have proved that he could be -- but that would mean very little; logical possibility is not the same as established reality. If the absence of disconfirming evidence were sufficient proof of a claim, then we could "prove" anything that we could imagine. Belief must be based not simply on the absence of disconfirming evidence but on the presence of confirming evidence. It is the claimant's obligation to furnish that confirming evidence. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence for the obvious reason of balance. If I claim that it rained for ten minutes on my way to work last Tuesday, you would be justified in accepting that claim as true on the basis of my report. But if I claim that I was abducted by extraterrestrial aliens who whisked me to the far side of the moon and performed bizarre medical experiments on me, you would be justified in demanding more substantial evidence. The ordinary evidence of my testimony, while sufficient for ordinary claims, is not sufficient for extraordinary ones. In fact, testimony is always inadequate for any paranormal claim, whether it is offered by an authority or a layperson, for the simple reason that a human being can lie or make a mistake. No amount of expertise in any field is a guarantee against human fallibility, and expertise does no preclude the motivation to lie; therefore a person's credentials, knowledge and experience cannot in themselves be taken as sufficient evidence to establish the truth of a claim. Moreover, a person's sincerity lends nothing to the credibility of his or her testimony. Even if people are telling what they sincerely believe to be the truth, it is always possible that then could be mistaken. Perception is a selective act, dependent upon belief context, expectation, emotional and biochemical states, and a host of other variables. Memory is notoriously problematic, prone to a range of distortions, deletions, substitutions and amplifications. Therefore the testimony that people offer of what they remember seeing or hearing should always be regarded as only provisionally and approximately accurate; when people are speaking about the paranormal, their testimony should never be regarded as reliable evidence in and of itself. The possibility and even the likelihood of error are far too extensive (see Connor 1986). ... Cats know how we feel. They don't give a damn, but they know... ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: Date: Thu May 01 12:48:44 CDT 1997 Message number: 89 Reply to message number: unavailable Conclusion The first three rules of FiLCHeRS -- falsifiability, logic, and comprehensiveness -- are all logically necessary rules of evidential reasoning. If we are to have confidence in the veracity of any claim whether normal or paranormal, the claim must be prepositionally meaningful, and the evidence offered in support of the claim must be rational and exhaustive. The last three rules of FiLCHeRS -- honesty, replicability, and sufficiency - - are all pragmatically necessary rules of evidential reasoning. Because human beings are often motivated to rationalize and to lie to themselves, because they are sometimes motivated to lie to others, because they can make mistakes, and because perception and memory are problematic, we must demand that the evidence for any factual claim be evaluated without self-deception, that it be carefully screened for error, fraud, and appropriateness, and that it be substantial and unequivocal. What I tell my students, then, is that you can and should use FiLCHeRS to evaluate the evidence offered for any claim. If the claim fails any one of these six tests, then it should be rejected; but if it passes all six tests, then you are justified in placing considerable confidence in it. Passing all six tests, of course, does not guarantee that the claim is true (just because you have examined all the evidence available today is no guarantee that there will not be new and disconfirming evidence available tomorrow), but it does guarantee that you have good reasons for believing the claim. It guarantees that you have sold your belief for a fair price, and that it has not been filched from you. Being a responsible adult means accepting the fact that almost all knowledge is tentative, and accepting it cheerfully. You may be required to change your belief tomorrow, if the evidence warrants, and you should be willing and able to do so. That, in essence, is what skepticism means: to believe if and only if the evidence warrants. References * Connor, John W. 1984. Misperception, folk belief, and the occult: A cognitive guide to understanding. SKEPTICAL INQUIRER, 8:344-354, Summer. * Dingwall, E. J. 1985. The need for responsibility in parapsychology: My sixty years in psychical research. In A SKEPTIC'S HANDBOOK OF PARAPSYCHOLOGY, 161-174, ed. by Paul Kurtz. Buffalo, N Y. Prometheus Books. * Hines, Terence. 1988. PSEUDOSCIENCE AND THE PARANORMAL; Buffalo, N.Y Prometheus Books. * Hoebens, Piet Hein. 1981. Gerard Croiset: Investigation of the Mozart of "psychic sleuths." SKEPTICAL INQUIRER, 6(1):1728, Fall. * -- -- -- . 1981-82. Croiset and Professor Tenhaeff: Discrepancies in claims of clairvoyance. SKEPTICAL INQUIRER, (2):21-40, Winter. * Hyman, Ray. 1985. A critical historical overview of parapsychology. In A SKEPTIC'S HANDBOOK OF PARAPSYCHOLOGY, 3-96, ed. by Paul Kurtz Buffalo, N.Y. Prometheus Books. * Omohundro, John T. 1976. Von D„niken's chariots: primer in the art of cooked science. SKEPTICAL INQUIRER, 1(1):58-68, Fall. * Story, Ronald D. 1977 Von D„niken's golden gods, SKEPTICAL INQUIRER, 2(1):22-35, Fall/Winter. About the Author James Lett is an associate professor of anthropology, Department of Social Sciences, Indian River Community College, 3209 Virginia Avenue, Ft. Pierce, FL 34981. He is author of THE HUMAN ENTERPRISE: A Critical Introduction to Anthropological Theory. ... Catch the Blue Wave! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 -!- PCBoard (R) v15.22/2 ! Origin: Digital Freedom - Canada's Freedom of Speech BBS - 416-462-3327 (1:250/148) ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: Skeptic???? Date: Fri May 02 17:13:30 CDT 1997 Message number: 90 Reply to message number: unavailable Ä Area: Skeptic ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ From: Kevin Gibson Read: Yes Replied: No Subj: What is a Skeptic? ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ > The following information appears on SKEPTIC MAGAZINE's Web Site. > The accompanying jabs are offered as "food for thought" by Yours Truly. > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - What is a Skeptic? What does it mean to be skeptical, or a skeptic? Some people believe that skepticism is denial or rejection of new ideas, or worse, they confuse "skeptic" with "cynic" and think that skeptics are a bunch of grumpy curmudgeons unwilling to accept any claim that challenges the status quo. Nothing could be further from the truth. > Ha!! Skeptic Magazine needs to visit the Fidonet Skeptic Echo. ;-) Skepticism is a provisional approach to claims. It is the application of science to any and all ideas - no sacred cows allowed. In other words, skepticism is a method, not a position. >The application of "science"? Ha! What science? No fixed position? >Ha!! This claim is _contradicted_ by Skeptic's fixed _position_ on ESP >and Creationism which is expressed only a few paragraphs later! :-) Ideally skeptics do not go into an investigation closed to the possibility that a phenomenon might be real or that a claimant might be right. When we say we are "skeptical" we mean that we must see evidence before we believe. Skeptics are from Missouri-the "show me" state. > Ha! Ideally there _is_ an investigation!! Ha! ;-) Skepticism has a long historical tradition dating back to ancient Greece when Socrates observed: "All I know is that I know nothing." But this position is sterile and unproductive and held by virtually no one. If you are skeptical about everything, you would have to be skeptical of your own skepticism. Like the decaying sub-atomic particle, pure skepticism uncoils and spins off the viewing screen of our intellectual cloud chamber. > Ha! See the posts titled "How to Debunk" to learn more about the > "clouds" in the skeptic's intellectual chamber. ;-) Modern skepticism is embodied in the scientific method, which gathers data to formulate and test naturalistic explanations for natural phenomena, and where a claim becomes factual when it is confirmed to such an extent it would be reasonable to offer temporary agreement. > Ha!! The Skeptics in the Fidonet Skeptic Echo don't gather data!! :-) But all facts in science are provisional and subject to change, and therefore skepticism is a method leading to provisional conclusions. > EVERYTHING is "provisional." NOTHING is fixed. Shift.. shift... :-) Some claims, such as water dowsing, ESP, and creationism, have been tested (and failed the tests) often enough that we can provisionally conclude that they are not valid. > Ha! But "skepticism" is not a position. ;-) Other claims, such as hypnosis, the origins of language, and black holes, have been tested but results are inconclusive so we must continue formulating and testing hypotheses and theories until we can reach a provisional conclusion. > Note that whatever conclusion is reached, it will be provisional! > Let's not confuse this with an inability to decide. Ha! ;-) The key to science and skepticism is to continuously and vigorously apply the scientific method to help navigate through the treacherous straights between pure Socratic "know nothing" skepticism, and unmitigated "anything goes" credulity. > The closest that "skepticism" gets to "science" in this Skeptic Echo > is the proximity of the two words in the above sentence. Ha! ;-) Over three centuries ago the French philosopher and skeptic Rene Descartes, after one of the most thorough skeptical purges in intellectual history, concluded that he knew one thing for certain: Cogito ergo sum - I think therefore I am. > Note: He knew one thing for _certain_!! ;-) But evolution may have designed us in the other direction. > Oh, oh!! Humans evolved to be pattern-seeking, causal-inferring animals, shaped by nature to find meaningful relationships in the world. Those who were best at doing this left behind the most offspring. We are their descendants. In other words, to be human is to think. To paraphrase Descartes: Sum Ergo Cogito - I Am Therefore I Think. > ... but that's "provisional." ;-) > Okay... that's it... ya'll have fun... let it fly... :-) -!- PPoint 2.00 ! Origin: . GEB - The Golden Eternal Braid - GEB . (1:396/45.6) ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BRIAREOS HECATONCHIRES To: Sandman Subject: Re: Field Guide to CThinking Date: Mon Jun 16 16:50:23 CDT 1997 Message number: 91 Reply to message number: 82 That's really interesting. Would it be possible to get that collated into a text file somehow? I didn't have time to read it all, and besides, that's something worth printing out, I think. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: BRIAREOS HECATONCHIRES Subject: Re: Field Guide to CThink Date: Tue Jun 17 12:25:14 CDT 1997 Message number: 92 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Briareos Hecatonchires to Sandman <=- BH> That's really interesting. Would it be possible to get that BH> collated into a text file somehow? I didn't have time to read it all, BH> and besides, that's something worth printing out, I think. I'll search my archives and upload it. look for it soon. ... Dyslexic Christian sells soul to Santa." ... News at 11 ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: Briareos Hecatonchires Subject: Re: Field Guide to CThinking Date: Tue Jun 17 17:05:13 CDT 1997 Message number: 93 Reply to message number: 91 BH> That's really interesting. Would it be possible to get that collated i BH> a text file somehow? I didn't have time to read it all, and besides, that' BH> something worth printing out, I think. Just capture it with your term program and read it later.. *teebo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BRIAREOS HECATONCHIRES To: Sandman Subject: Re: Field Guide to CThink Date: Sun Jun 22 13:01:34 CDT 1997 Message number: 94 Reply to message number: 92 Awesome. thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BRIAREOS HECATONCHIRES To: Big Teebo Subject: Re: Field Guide to CThinking Date: Sun Jun 22 13:04:16 CDT 1997 Message number: 95 Reply to message number: 93 Why? A text file doesn't take up much space, so there's no special reason not* to. Besides, it's a time issue; I've got other things to do than sort through the ANSI garbage that comes along with captured text.