------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Daedalus Rising To: All Subject: Conspiracy Date: Sat Sep 03 13:49:49 CDT 1994 Message number: 1 Reply to message number: 0 This is a base to discuss conspiracy theories; from Whitewater to JFK's assasination. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Starfox Subject: Re: ahh shit Date: Tue Oct 22 18:15:56 CDT 1996 Message number: 2 Reply to message number: 1 S> i Just realized I was looking at posts 100,000 years ago.. ignore my S> replies.. Most of us have done that at one time or another. Makes some interesting variety in the messages. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: STARFOX Subject: ahh shit Date: Thu Oct 24 18:45:58 CDT 1996 Message number: 3 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Starfox to All <=- St> St> i Just realized I was looking at posts 100,000 years ago.. ignore St> my replies.. I hate that. Hehehehee. There is truly a conspiracy against this BBS's clock. ... Time Zero ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Starfox Subject: Re: Names Date: Fri Oct 25 15:30:05 CDT 1996 Message number: 4 Reply to message number: -3 S> Oh, comeon. THis country was BASED on christianity. Yes and no. Yes, many of the founders of the country were Christians and held Christian beliefs. No, in the sense that many of them were also non-Christians - there were athiests, deists and all kinds of splinter groups. What they all had in common was a dislike for active government support of any religion ... which is why, when the Chrsitian right uses this argument to bolster their vision of American theorcracy, it's so out of context and distorted as to be comical. S> Oh, comeon (again) We arnt going to go around and change the names. They ar S> a part of our heritage, also. We cant just take them away to allow S> "Affirmative Action"(my puiny brain came up with that.. sue me), we can star S> building our new things on names other than those in thta catagory, but we S> cannot change histroy, let alone it's names. Some things cannot be PC. So, in order to be historically accurate and remain true to our roots, we shouldn't conrern ourselves with the feelings of other people and other cultures? Great! Glad to have you aboard. I make up a petittion to rename North Minneapolis `niggerville', Highland Park `Jewryland' and the West Side `Spic City', would you mind passing it around school? (heavy sarcasm, sorry for the recial shit ... but it was to make a point). ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: Names Date: Sat Oct 26 15:04:45 CDT 1996 Message number: 5 Reply to message number: 4 S> Oh, comeon. THis country was BASED on christianity. DR> DR> Yes and no. Yes, many of the founders of the country were Christians and h DR> Christian beliefs. No, in the sense that many of them were also non-Christi DR> - there were athiests, deists and all kinds of splinter groups. What they a DR> had in common was a dislike for active government support of any religion . DR> which is why, when the Chrsitian right uses this argument to bolster their DR> vision of American theorcracy, it's so out of context and distorted as to b DR> comical. The people who wernt christian were uasally burned.. and stuff. S> Oh, comeon (again) We arnt going to go around and change the names. They a S> a part of our heritage, also. We cant just take them away to allow S> "Affirmative Action"(my puiny brain came up with that.. sue me), we can star S> building our new things on names other than those in thta catagory, but we S> cannot change histroy, let alone it's names. Some things cannot be PC. DR> DR> So, in order to be historically accurate and remain true to our roots, we DR> shouldn't conrern ourselves with the feelings of other people and other DR> cultures? DR> Great! Glad to have you aboard. I make up a petittion to rename North DR> Minneapolis `niggerville', Highland Park `Jewryland' and the West Side DR> `Spic City', would you mind passing it around school? DR> (heavy sarcasm, sorry for the recial shit ... but it was to make a point) Well you totally missed my point.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Starfox Subject: Re: Names Date: Sat Oct 26 16:15:13 CDT 1996 Message number: 6 Reply to message number: 5 S> Well you totally missed my point.. S> The people who wernt christian were uasally burned.. and stuff. S> I don't think so. I think you are VERY uninformed about the religious views of the Founding Fathers. Several of them, notably, Thomas Jefferson, were what would be called, "Humanists," today. The Christian Right has been throwing mud at that name (along with "liberal"), trying to make them "unchristian." Several of the Founding Fathers were Freemasons, which was, and still is, totally rejected by the Catholic Church. But the Church didn't get to decide. Many of these men were also members of the Church of England, very similar to our Episcopalian Church today. Then there was William Penn. He left the Church of England and joined the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers). When he set up the Compact for the Friends' State of Pennsylvania, he openly invited settlers from any place in the world, "as long as they believed in God." Benjamin Franklin did not attend any church at all. It is because they realized that there was such a wide difference in the ways they all viewed God and religion, and because they had personally witnessed some of the horrible wars and oppressions in countries based on religion, that the decided to allow religion freely in this country and would not allow a "state" religion. That is why we do not have Christmas decorations in schools and observations of Mohammed's trip to Mecca. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Starfox Subject: Re: Names Date: Sat Oct 26 20:16:59 CDT 1996 Message number: 7 Reply to message number: 5 DR> Yes and no. Yes, many of the founders of the country were Christians and h DR> Christian beliefs. No, in the sense that many of them were also non-Christi DR> - there were athiests, deists and all kinds of splinter groups. What they a DR> had in common was a dislike for active government support of any religion . S> The people who wernt christian were uasally burned.. and stuff. A few isolated cases does not make a trend. Besides, the witchburnings were in colonial times before we had gained our independence from England. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: Froggy Subject: Re: Names Date: Mon Oct 28 10:00:16 CST 1996 Message number: 8 Reply to message number: 6 F> Then there was William Penn. He left the Church of England and F> joined the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers). When he set up the Compa F> for the Friends' State of Pennsylvania, he openly invited settlers from any F> place in the world, "as long as they believed in God." I thought Quaker was Christian? I mean, they speak when they feel they are called in church "Houses" or whatever they are called. I know that during the big plauge the quakers stayed back, and helped the dying people, also. Wasnt Mr. Penn in prision for being quaker, and he decided to start a colony in the new land, and the king, or someone owed his fater somthing, and will's father was dead, and he decided to take the land? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: Names Date: Mon Oct 28 10:00:46 CST 1996 Message number: 9 Reply to message number: 7 S> The people who wernt christian were uasally burned.. and stuff. DR> DR> A few isolated cases does not make a trend. Besides, the witchburnings DR> were in colonial times before we had gained our independence from England. ok.. ok. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SPECTER To: Starfox Subject: Re: Names Date: Mon Oct 28 14:44:55 CST 1996 Message number: 10 Reply to message number: 8 S> I thought Quaker was Christian? I mean, they speak when they feel they Uh, last time I checked it was pretty much. Froggy? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Specter Subject: Re: Names Date: Mon Oct 28 16:42:02 CST 1996 Message number: 11 Reply to message number: 10 S> I thought Quaker was Christian? I mean, they speak when they feel they S> S> Uh, last time I checked it was pretty much. Froggy? Yes, but if you go to most Friends' Meetings today, you don't hear much about it. We aren't much into playing "who is the best Christian." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: Froggy Subject: Re: Names Date: Tue Oct 29 14:49:27 CST 1996 Message number: 12 Reply to message number: 11 F> Yes, but if you go to most Friends' Meetings today, you don't hear F> much about it. We aren't much into playing "who is the best Christian." My church is.. I was at a retrat, and they were saying never "Mislead" yourselfs into thinking other religions are better.. cathloic is best.. blah.. pissed me off. I am not in life to compete (unless C++ ProBoard SDK..)] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SPECTER To: Froggy Subject: Re: Names Date: Tue Oct 29 15:00:39 CST 1996 Message number: 13 Reply to message number: 11 F> Yes, but if you go to most Friends' Meetings today, you don't hear F> much about it. We aren't much into playing "who is the best Christian." Nice. I really get tired of hearing all sorts of people arguing about who's a better Christian. Nice to hear that you avoid that. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Starfox Subject: Re: Names Date: Tue Oct 29 15:45:41 CST 1996 Message number: 14 Reply to message number: 12 F> Yes, but if you go to most Friends' Meetings today, you don't hear F> much about it. We aren't much into playing "who is the best Christian." S> S> My church is.. I was at a retrat, and they were saying never "Mislead" S> yourselfs into thinking other religions are better.. cathloic is best.. blah S> pissed me off. I am not in life to compete (unless C++ ProBoard SDK..)] When I hear people say things like this, I get a mental picture of Jesus standing in the church door with his whip in his hand. That settles it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DEVIOUS To: All Subject: Department Of Defense (LIARS) Date: Sun Nov 03 06:04:01 CST 1996 Message number: 15 Reply to message number: unavailable Hello People, I just got a letter in the mail about "AREA 51" that supposelys DOES NOT exist by what they say. Well, I bitched at them awhile ago and stuff about this "AREA 51" thing, and they still try to hide itr from me. Do they think that us people are that stupid? Well, they say (Mark R. Wasserman, Major, USAF) that all the things they are doing near (Dry) Groom Lake has to do with enviromental shit, but that is just PURE B.S. Well, then why the hell can't we get close to that area without getting our heads blown off? They do have the right to do that you know, so if this whole thing is to do with the enviroment, then why the phuc is it so secret? Anyone know? Well, I guess I can type the letter out and like send (upload it to messages here) for you people to read. That is if you request it though.. Well, I see ya people lATER, LoRD DeViouS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Devious Subject: Re: Department Of Defense (LIARS) Date: Mon Nov 04 11:43:00 CST 1996 Message number: 16 Reply to message number: 15 D> I just got a letter in the mail about "AREA 51" that supposelys DOE D> NOT exist by what they say. Well, I bitched at them awhile ago and stuff D> think that us people are that stupid? Well, they say (Mark R. Wasserman, D> Major, USAF) that all the things they are doing near (Dry) Groom Lake has to D> do with enviromental shit, but that is just PURE B.S. Well, then why the hel D> can't we get close to that area without getting our heads blown off? They d If there *isn't* any hush-hush alien stuff going on there, then what is the *environmental* stuff that they also don't want citizens to know about? I'd like to see that letter. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DEVIOUS To: Froggy Subject: Re: Department Of Defense (LIARS) Date: Tue Nov 05 08:16:32 CST 1996 Message number: 17 Reply to message number: 16 F> If there *isn't* any hush-hush alien stuff going on there, then wha F> is the *environmental* stuff that they also don't want citizens to know abou F> I'd like to see that letter. Ok Froggy, I am typing it up right now... Dear Aaron, On behalf of President Clinton, thank you for your letter regarding "AREA 51." Your letter was provided to the Department of the Air Force for response. Neither the Air Force nor the De[artment of Defense owns or operates any location known as "Area 51." There are a variety of activities, some of which are classified, throughout what is often called the Air Force's Nellis Range Complex. The range is used for testing of technologies and systems and training for operations critical to the effectiveness of the United States military forces and the security of the United States. There is an operating location near Groom Dry Lake. Specific activities and operations conducted on the Nellis Range, both past and present, remain classified and cannot be discussed publicy. In connection with the litigation concerning the operating location near Groom Dry Lake, the Air Force has stressed its commitment to protecting the environment and national security. We believe these goals are not incompatible. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the state enviromental regulators with appropriate clearances have inspected the operating location and monitor the Air Force's efforts to further assure compliance with environmental laws. The court held that EPA conducted a "thorough inspection" and that the Air Force is adequately providing information to EPA concerning the operating location. On several occasions, the court has also held that the Air Force has properly classified information concerning the operating location. We appreciate your interest in this matter and trust the information provided us helpful. Sincerly, (Signatured) (Typed out name)--> Mark R. Wasserman, Major, USAF Chief, White House Inquiries Office of Legislative Liaison ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DEVIOUS To: All Subject: a51 letter Date: Tue Nov 05 08:20:44 CST 1996 Message number: 18 Reply to message number: unavailable Ok, I typed it exactly out as it was except at the end, it doesn't say (signature) on the letter. ehhe... But I just pointed out that he (Mark) signed it with a pen also as well as typed it. Tell me what you think of it people, and thank you for your interst Froggy.. LoRD DeViouS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Devious Subject: Re: Department Of Defense (LIARS) Date: Tue Nov 05 09:51:04 CST 1996 Message number: 19 Reply to message number: 17 F> If there *isn't* any hush-hush alien stuff going on there, then wha F> is the *environmental* stuff that they also don't want citizens to know abou F> I'd like to see that letter. D> D> Ok Froggy, I am typing it up right now... D> Thanks D> location near Groom Dry Lake. Specific activities and operations conducted D> the Nellis Range, both past and present, remain classified and cannot be D> discussed publicy. D> What a coincidence. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SPECTER To: Devious Subject: Re: Department Of Defense (LIARS) Date: Tue Nov 05 16:49:19 CST 1996 Message number: 20 Reply to message number: 17 D> Neither the Air Force nor the De[artment of Defense owns or operates any D> location known as "Area 51." There are a variety of activities, some of whi D> are classified, throughout what is often called the Air Force's Nellis Range D> Complex. The range is used for testing of technologies and systems and I can't say that I would expect the government to actually admit to having any sort of site similar to "Area 51". To do so would defy logic, perhaps not morality, but I think it would defy the government's logic to keep the public only as aware as necessary to hold a reasonably succesful societal machine. D> location near Groom Dry Lake. Specific activities and operations conducted D> the Nellis Range, both past and present, remain classified and cannot be D> discussed publicy. Of course we'll never be told what happens to be in "Area 51" so we're left to speculation which could be either a way of dodging something else more important there or truly hiding what is suspected to be there. Interesting letter. I'm glad you printed it. I'd be interested to hear more from them about this site. I can't help but be wary at the extrememly vague inference of some environmental project there. It seems to me that that could be an easy way of finding an out for an explanation. Environmental project could satisfy the general public while still holding some veil of secrecy around it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: Devious Subject: Re: a51 letter Date: Tue Nov 05 17:14:52 CST 1996 Message number: 21 Reply to message number: 18 D> Ok, I typed it exactly out as it was except at the end, it doesn't say D> (signature) on the letter. ehhe... But I just pointed out that he (Mark) D> signed it with a pen also as well as typed it. Tell me what you think of i That's really interesting, what did you send them to get this personallized response? Just a letter to the president saying "You've got aliens in area 51, don't you?" :) *teebo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Specter Subject: Re: Department Of Defense (LIARS) Date: Tue Nov 05 17:28:23 CST 1996 Message number: 22 Reply to message number: 20 S> Of course we'll never be told what happens to be in "Area 51" so we're left S> speculation which could be either a way of dodging something else more S> important there or truly hiding what is suspected to be there. S> S> Interesting letter. I'm glad you printed it. I'd be interested to hear S> more from them about this site. I can't help but be wary at the extrememly S> vague inference of some environmental project there. It seems to me that th S> could be an easy way of finding an out for an explanation. Environmental S> project could satisfy the general public while still holding some veil of S> secrecy around it. Just the idea of a "secret, classified, environmental project" is titillating, isn't it? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Big Teebo Subject: Re: a51 letter Date: Tue Nov 05 17:30:00 CST 1996 Message number: 23 Reply to message number: 21 BT> That's really interesting, what did you send them to get this personallized BT> response? Just a letter to the president saying "You've got aliens in area BT> 51, don't you?" :) BT> No, that would have generated a letter saying, "No, aah've got Republicans up my ass. Back to you later," ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DEVIOUS To: Big Teebo Subject: Re: a51 letter Date: Wed Nov 06 08:59:23 CST 1996 Message number: 24 Reply to message number: 21 BT> That's really interesting, what did you send them to get this personallized BT> response? About 4 or 5 months ago, before I cancelled my internet account, I was jjust looking for government things, like cia crap and such. I came across some white hpouse web page and e-mailed them because I use to be way to caught up in ufo study and stuff like that. So, just a couple of days ago, I finally got a response in the mail and I was really surprised to actually see them (the govt.) to reply to my e-mail like they did. :) BT> Just a letter to the president saying "You've got aliens in area BT> 51, don't you?" :) No, I just asked them a bunch of ?'s on this stuff, and I know the enviroment part is true, but there is "Area 51" out there, my dad had a friend who was with the C. I. A. and he (dave something) flew in and out of "A-51" all the time. Also, if any of you have lived in Nevada or Arizona, the CIA were the ones who flew in those black planes no one knows about. I can't remember the names that people who didn't know who were flying them but it starts with a J. Well, Teebo, I will get you a photo copy of it to ya... TTYL people. LoRD DeViouS ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SPECTER To: Froggy Subject: Re: Department Of Defense (LIARS) Date: Wed Nov 06 16:54:18 CST 1996 Message number: 25 Reply to message number: 22 F> Just the idea of a "secret, classified, environmental project" is F> titillating, isn't it? This is true. If it is a "secret, classified, environmental project" I'd like to know what they could possibly be doing in the environmental department that could require such secrecy. Maybe they've found a way to end ozone depletion or a quick grow formula for plants and rainforest trees... Think of all the possibilities. :) Actually I think they'd make a plan to develop paper clips secret if they felt like it. They hid a mach 5 jet in the desert for years and denied it even though there was scientific proof that it existed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: Con Digest vol 9 #61 Date: Wed Nov 13 11:31:51 CST 1996 Message number: 26 Reply to message number: unavailable The following is brought to you thanks, in part, to the kind assistance of CyberNews and the fine folks at Cornell University. Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 9 Num. 61 ====================================== ("Quid coniuratio est?") ----------------------------------------------------------------- MORE CRISIS FOR CLINTON ======================= By Sherman H. Skolnick ---------------------- Some military flag officers and Vice President Al Gore are closely watching Bill Clinton. Is a crisis coming? Part of it revolves around the crash, off Long Island, New York, of TWA Flight 800 which had been enroute to Paris. Some background: More than 60 French nationals died in the crash. Two top officials of the French Secret Police were scheduled to be onboard Flight 800 but, at the last moment, took another flight. Five or more of their assistants, however, died in the crash. By the way, what were the French CIA brass doing so much in the United States? Were they trying to determine if there is a U.S. military coup in the works against Clinton? The Clinton White House blocked the French government's efforts to send 300 of their own divers and experts to scour the ocean bottom for what really happened. It was only then that Clinton ordered a supposed full-scale U.S. ocean search for victims and pieces of the crashed plane. Since at least the early 1960s and DeGaulle, France has not trusted the United States. At the time, they withdrew from NATO and turned their missiles to face the U.S. Undercover operatives of the French CIA infiltrated the plot to assassinate President Kennedy in 1963. Their explosive details of a high-level American CIA and military cabal were in a European best-seller in 14 languages and published in English in Belgium in 1968, and written under a pen-name. Then and now the Washington government forbids U.S. bookstores to sell the book, called "Farewell America." Only two Americans were able to smuggle the books into the U.S. I was one of them and gave away copies at college lectures in the 1970s in return for small donations. No copies are left now. Like with the book "Farewell America," the Paris government again has the smoking gun that this time could topple the Clinton White House. The pilot of a French civilian airplane here says he swerved his plane to avoid a missile. French airlines are equipped with a special onboard video taping system. French TV has the video tape and so far has embargoed it. (French TV also beams to Chicago via satellite. Their up-link and down-link are on top of a public access cable TV facility in Chicago.) The French CIA also has the video tape which, if aired, could wreck the Clinton White House efforts to stonewall Flight 800 details. A former ABC News correspondent stationed in Paris, Pierre Salinger, says he has inside data from French intelligence as well as the U.S. Secret Service showing that Flight 800 was shot down by a U.S. Navy missile. (Was the shoot-down by accident or otherwise? Some contend the plane had onboard hundreds of billions of dollars of counterfeit bonds, so well made they could be used to topple either the U.S. or a foreign government. Which? Apparently, every other effort to stop the circulation and transport of the bonds has met with failure. Was the situation also like Pan Am Flight 103? Which had onboard, when it was bombed and crashed, somewhere between 8 and 50 CIA personnel returning from a failed hostage rescue mission; some of them subpoenaed to testify before a Congressional committee of treasonous meddling by George Bush. The Flight 103 was brought down 6 weeks after Bush was elected President in 1988.) By the way, some contend an American publisher suppressed a book by Salinger about the treason of Bush in a Paris suburb and elsewhere in Europe, in October, 1980, arranging to delay release of U.S. hostages held by Iran. Bush's treachery was to make Jimmy Carter appear to be a wimp and to benefit the Reagan/Bush election ticket. It is called the "October Surprise" scenario. The hostages were released in January, 1981, a few moments after Reagan was inaugurated the new President. (And who all was it that shot at Reagan some weeks thereafter?) Clinton could have avoided the apparent crisis about Flight 800 by quickly, after the crash, apologizing to the families of those who perished, stating [that] by accident a U.S. missile downed the plane. But: how would he apologize to the families of the French nationals who perished? And to the families of the French Secret Police? Note: The TWA Flight 800 crash was in July, 1996. In July, 1988, in a similar mishap, like with Flight 800 (assuming Flight 800 was just an "accident"), an aegis-class missile cruiser downed an Iranian civilian airplane killing, like with Flight 800, several hundred people. (Some use the analogy to posit an Iranian terrorist missile scenario against Flight 800.) On the Iranian crash, see: the book "The Line of Fire" by Admiral William J. Crowe, Jr., former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. In published accounts, Pierre Salinger is quoted as saying that he had the document on Flight 800 five weeks before he disclosed it a few days after Clinton's 1996 re-election. Salinger says some "very important people" had advised him not to reveal it until after the November 5th election because "officials won't tell the truth until after the American election." (Chicago Tribune, 11/9/96). {1}. The French are apparently aware of a U.S. military coup against Clinton -- several attempts since 1995 have been violently snuffed out -- such as the planeload of generals and such, killed in a sabotaged plane crash in Alabama on April 17, 1995, two days before the Oklahoma bombings (which some contend was an ATF "sting" that went wrong.) In this crisis, Al Gore reportedly is joining with the flag officers -- Admirals and Generals -- to remove Clinton: (1) as provided under the military code, with flag officers and others arresting and charging Commander-in-Chief Clinton with treason and sedition (which would be their defense if Clinton charges them with mutiny.) And (2) under the 25th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, Gore as Vice President, joining with other Executive Department officials, to unseat Clinton, making Gore the Acting President. Gore reportedly plans to name John D. Rockefeller IV, called Jay, the appointed, not elected, new Vice President. Does Gore have enough life insurance? Jay itches to be the unelected President. ---------------------------<< Notes >>--------------------------- {1} Or did Salinger wait until after the election because releasing the info before the election might be perceived as just "dirty politics," in other words, just political propaganda? Releasing the info after the election removes the stigma of pre-election propaganda. + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + Mr. Skolnick, chairman/founder since 1963 of Citizens' Committee to Clean Up the Courts, investigating and disclosing judicial bribery and political murders. Updates of their work are on a recorded 5-minute phone message, on 24 hrs/day, a regular phone call: (312) 731-1100. He is the moderator of a public access cable TV show, on since 1991. His comments are on various categories on Internet. (Put in his full name through search engines such as Netscape.) Office: 8 a.m. to midnight, 7 days, (312) 375-5741. Call before sending fax. 9800 S. Oglesby Ave., Chicago, IL 60617-4870. The new area code after Oct. 1996 has been 773. If any problem, continue for awhile using old area code 312. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of Conspiracy Nation, nor of its Editor in Chief. ----------------------------------------------------------------- I encourage distribution of "Conspiracy Nation." ----------------------------------------------------------------- If you would like "Conspiracy Nation" sent to your e-mail address, send a message in the form "subscribe cn-l My Name" to listproc@cornell.edu (Note: that is "CN-L" *not* "CN-1") ----------------------------------------------------------------- For information on how to receive the improved Conspiracy Nation Newsletter, send an e-mail message to bigred@shout.net ----------------------------------------------------------------- Want to know more about Whitewater, Oklahoma City bombing, etc? (1) telnet prairienet.org (2) logon as "visitor" (3) go citcom ----------------------------------------------------------------- See also: http://www.shout.net/~bigred/cn.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- See also: ftp.shout.net pub/users/bigred ----------------------------------------------------------------- Aperi os tuum muto, et causis omnium filiorum qui pertranseunt. Aperi os tuum, decerne quod justum est, et judica inopem et pauperem. -- Liber Proverbiorum XXXI: 8-9 ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: ConDigest Vol 9 #60 Date: Wed Nov 13 11:31:52 CST 1996 Message number: 27 Reply to message number: unavailable Conspiracy Nation -- Vol. 9 Num. 60 ====================================== ("Quid coniuratio est?") ----------------------------------------------------------------- READING THE TEA LEAVES ====================== Expert Post-Election Analysis by Dan Branermi --------------------------------------------- Straw man Bob Dole pretended to run for President. He went easy on Bill Clinton in return for a cushy post-election job, perhaps as part of a bi-partisan commission of some type. The larger picture is for a second-term slow grilling of Bill Clinton with him eventually stepping down. In the works may well be, as emphasized by Sherman H. Skolnick of Chicago, an appointment by post-Clinton President Al Gore of Jay Rockefeller as Vice President. From there, Gore could be given the heave-ho based on alleged scandals connected to him. All this "coincidentally" would occur concurrently with an inevitable economic collapse. Public rage at economic disaster could be diverted onto hapless Bill Clinton, suddenly revealed as a crook to a somewhat ignorant public. Countering all this could be Clinton stonewalling: as head of the Executive branch, Bill Clinton has a lot of power. Were such stonewalling to occur, a prolonged agony of Clinton scandal hearings, investigations, and "news," may bring the situation to a tragic climax: veteran White House correspondent Sarah McClendon reportedly has voiced fears that Clinton may be assassinated. Clinton is Oswald. As pointed out by Michel Foucault in his book, *Surveiller et punir*, the condemned man represents the symmetrical, inverted figure of the king. Lee Harvey Oswald's father died two months before he was born. Oswald's uncle, Charles "Dutz" Murret, was Lee's surrogate father during his youth. "Uncle Dutz" became connected with Carlos Marcello's Louisiana Mafia in 1947, and later helped young Lee Harvey Oswald gain employment as a "runner" for Marcello. Both Lee and Uncle Dutz worked in Marcello's downtown bookmaking network. (See *Mafia Kingfish* by John H. Davis, e.g. ch. 52.) Bill Clinton's father William Blythe died in a car wreck in May of 1946. About three months later his son, the future President Bill Clinton, was born. Bill Clinton had as mentor and surrogate father one Raymond G. Clinton, brother of stepfather Roger Clinton, Sr. "Uncle Raymond" tutored young Bill Clinton in the hidden ways of politics. As pointed out by Roger Morris in *Partner's in Power*, "it would be to big Uncle Raymond that Billy turned again and again in matters of real power and ambition." According to veteran sleuth Skolnick, Uncle Raymond had underworld connections (see CN 9.54). Oswald was the condemned man -- the inverted figure of the king. About 30 years after the death of condemned man Oswald we have come full-circle: Clinton is the inverted figure of the condemned man. Who is praised when the harvest (economy) is good? The king. Who is blamed when the crops (economy) fail? The king. The planned eruption of the various Clinton scandals into general public consciousness will coincide with the "crops" failing, and Bill Clinton has long-since been "sheep dipped" for his role of diversionary fall guy. Tom Valentine, host of *Radio Free America*, has a slightly different slant. As reported in The Spotlight of 11/11/96, "some insiders are saying the charges and arrest [of Chuck Hayes] are politically motivated because Hayes is allegedly working with Special Prosecutor Kenneth Starr." Valentine reportedly has predicted that upcoming scandal hearings may wind up further destroying public confidence in the government. He agrees with this observer that the whole situation is deliberate, yet differs as to its purpose: "When the truth hits the 'sheeple' like a ton of bricks, the mainstream will be traumatized. What kind of gimmick will be offered by the manipulators -- a new world order?" Adding to the boiling cauldron is unrest within the military. According to Mr. Skolnick, there have in the past few years been several military plots to arrest Bill Clinton. Says Skolnick, "Some contend it would be justified under the Military Code." Currently, according to the Chicago journalist and crusader against corruption, "Clinton has quietly ordered total surveillance on all the flag officers, more than 400 Generals and Admirals. He wants to know who is plotting to arrest him." In his current recorded message (312-731-1100), Mr. Skolnick foresees imminent indictments, including of First Lady Hillary Clinton. Says Skolnick, "Some expect Hillary may take up residence in a foreign country having no extradition treaty with the U.S., such as Ireland." If this occurs, perhaps her new neighbor will be disgraced Mexican ex-president Carlos Salinas, now also hiding out in Ireland. Post-election analysis: Eruption of Clinton scandals will coincide with economic collapse. Clinton will be the scapegoat for public anger. Like Oswald, he will divert wrath from the real killers, in this case the killers of the economy. Complicating things will be Bill Clinton's ability, as Chief of the Executive branch, to stall the process. Lurking on the sidelines is a disgruntled military, with power of their own. (By an interesting coincidence, the letters in the name "Dan Branermi" can be re-arranged to spell "Brian Redman.") ... You poor guys. Always confusing your pistols with your privates. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JER To: All Subject: RE:New Bills Date: Mon Nov 18 07:28:20 CST 1996 Message number: 28 Reply to message number: unavailable What do you think of the new 100 dollar bills? Is it just me or does that watermark really look nothing like Franklin? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Jer Subject: Re: RE:New Bills Date: Mon Nov 18 17:35:51 CST 1996 Message number: 29 Reply to message number: 28 J> What do you think of the new 100 dollar bills? Is it just me or does that J> watermark really look nothing like Franklin? I think the design is pretty ugly, though a change had to be made to prevent counterfeiting - there are stories that the Iranians were printing off massive numbers of $100 bills, devaluing our currency. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: All Subject: SoA Date: Sun Nov 24 03:35:41 CST 1996 Message number: 30 Reply to message number: unavailable Via NY Transfer News Collective * All the News that Doesn't Fit from "El Nuevo Diario," Managua, Nicaragua Opinion/Editorial, Nov 11, 1996 Translated for NY Transfer by Toby Mailman, Managua The School of the Americas by Bernard Poulet translated from the French by Rafael Rene Corea Created in 1946, the School of the Americas has "formed" [trained] more than 60,000 soldiers and police from a dozen Latin American countries. But according for those who oppose the school, it has done just the opposite: it has "deformed" them. Among graduates of the school are found a good number of portraits of torturers, killers and uniformed dictators. Originally installed in Panama -- from which it was essentially expelled in 1984 by President Jorge Illuca, who had denounced it as "the greatest destabilizing base" in Latin America -- the School of the Americas now operates inside the United States, at Fort Benning, Georgia. The school -- which has always denied resposibility for the numerous "mistakes" of its former students -- is currently enduring one of its most difficult times. Its directors have had to admit the existence of "manuals of formation [sic] against guerrillas," and in particular methods of interrogation which are hardly compatible with respect for human rights. Spanish-language [training] pamphlets are still in circulation, one of which was explicitly devoted to "interrogations" and explained techniques of torture, execution and blackmail -- recommending, for example, the systematic arrest of the wives, children and relatives of prisoners whose confessions must be obtained. "Create fear; offer compensation for the death of an enemy; simulate imprisonment and execution, or use truth serum," was some of the advice given to School of the Americas students. Is there a relationship between former students of the school and the murder of six Jesuit priests in San Salvador in November, 1989? Or the various soldiers who killed Archbishop Romero? Or the greater part of the military corps of the sinister Battalion 316 which was responsible in Honduras for a series of kidnappings, tortures and summary executions? Those in charge defend themselves by arguing that some "exceptions" do not represent the thousands of officers who have passed through the courses at the School of the Americas. Perhaps it's true, but among its old students are found some of the worst military dictators in Latin America: Gen. Efrain Rios Montt of Guatemala; Gen. Hugo Banzer Suares of Bolivia; Argentine Generals Leopoldo Galieri and Roberto Viola; Gen. Manual Antonio Noriega of Panama and, sadly [sic] the celebrated Salvadoran Major Roberto D'Abuisson, to cite some of the better known ones. But, say [the School's] defenders, none of this proves that it has been a center of education in torture; Latin American military forces have no need for lessons in this area [they argue], coming from a continent where the tradition of force and violence is such that there is no need to import it from outside their countries. But one thing is clear: that the manuals did not fall from the sky. Besides, an earlier scandal occurred over the discovery of a pamphlet destined for the Nicaraguan contras, financed by the CIA. The cold-war environment and the "crusade against the evil empire" developed by President Reagan justified the use of all methods to win the dirty war against the Sandinistas. Today the epoch has changed and once again American democracy has accepted self-criticism. However, Democratic president Bill Clinton rejects the closing of the School of the Americas and has refused to respond to those who are demanding it be closed, including an editorial in The New York Times. All ask if it is necessary to continue "teaching" Latin American military personnel the lack of trust in, not to mention the disparagement of, the labor unionists, priests and intellectuals of the continent. When it appears that Latin America has found the road to democracy -- now more than ever, when new economic and social crises are evident -- it is obviously extremely dangerous for the School of the Americas to continue "deforming" those Latin American military personnel who have never admitted their guilt, have never expressed their mea culpa... -fin- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MIDNIGHT WRITER To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: RE:New Bills Date: Tue Nov 26 09:17:03 CST 1996 Message number: 31 Reply to message number: unavailable J > What do you think of the new 100 dollar bills? Is it just me or does J > that watermark really look nothing like Franklin? DR | I think the design is pretty ugly, though a change had to be made | to prevent counterfeiting - there are stories that the Iranians | were printing off massive numbers of $100 bills, devaluing our | currency. I agree, the design looks like the play money I used to buy as a kid. I don't see how this new design will prevent counterfiting, though - if someone were to print up a batch of the old-style hundreds, they'd still spend just fine - wouldn't they? -==- --- ž JABBER v1.2 ž REALITY.SYS Corrupted: Re-boot universe? (Y/N/Q) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KRUSTY To: Midnight Writer Subject: Re: RE:New Bills Date: Sat Dec 23 16:02:19 CST 1995 Message number: 32 Reply to message number: 31 MW> I agree, the design looks like the play money I used to buy as a kid. I MW> don't see how this new design will prevent counterfiting, though - if MW> someone were to print up a batch of the old-style hundreds, they'd still MW> spend just fine - wouldn't they? Yeah this would probably work for a few years, but after awhile a lot of the old $100 bills will be out of circulation so anyone coming across an older $100 will have to be a little suspicious.. at least cautious. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Krusty Subject: Re: RE:New Bills Date: Sat Dec 23 16:17:22 CST 1995 Message number: 33 Reply to message number: 32 K> Yeah this would probably work for a few years, but after awhile a lot of the K> old $100 bills will be out of circulation so anyone coming across an older K> $100 will have to be a little suspicious.. at least cautious. Especially newly-printed ones that don't like they ever even crossed the hand of a drug dealer. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Midnight Writer Subject: Re: RE:New Bills Date: Sat Dec 23 16:43:15 CST 1995 Message number: 34 Reply to message number: 31 MW> I agree, the design looks like the play money I used to buy as a kid. I MW> don't see how this new design will prevent counterfiting, though - if MW> someone were to print up a batch of the old-style hundreds, they'd still MW> spend just fine - wouldn't they? Eventually most of them will pass through the local bank, be shipped off to the local Federal Reserve bank and then shredded and burned. With so few remaining "old" hundreds left, they'd be questioned when they turned up - especially in any great quantity. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: RE:New Bills Date: Sun Dec 24 03:14:04 CST 1995 Message number: 35 Reply to message number: 34 DR> Eventually most of them will pass through the local bank, be shipped off t DR> the local Federal Reserve bank and then shredded and burned. With so few DR> remaining "old" hundreds left, they'd be questioned when they turned up - DR> especially in any great quantity. Kind of like when you try to use $2 bills? "Hey John, it looks like we've got some funny money here." *teebo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: KRUSTY To: Y'All Subject: conspiracy Date: Thu Nov 28 18:56:42 CST 1996 Message number: 36 Reply to message number: unavailable Well it looks like this base was gonna always be newscanning around message 49 because of Teebo's malfuctioning clock. Sounds like a conspiracy to get us to read the old messages to generate some conversation to me. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SMP To: All Subject: Hybriding Date: Fri Nov 29 03:59:23 CST 1996 Message number: 37 Reply to message number: unavailable Hsa any one else heard about the hybriding going on in Europe? Well it turns out that a group of men, some from the US and some from Europe, are kidknapping young boys and sending them out to be studs. Arnie Carlson is said to be involved, many of the US men are supposedly from Minnesota. Jacob Wetterling is said to be one of these studs and his parents were paid off to keep quiet.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Smp Subject: Re: Hybriding Date: Fri Nov 29 13:21:46 CST 1996 Message number: 38 Reply to message number: 37 S> Hsa any one else heard about the hybriding going on in Europe? Well it turn S> out that a group of men, some from the US and some from Europe, are S> kidknapping young boys and sending them out to be studs. Arnie Carlson is sa Sounds like a crock to me. I would have to see more proof. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: Smp Subject: Re: Hybriding Date: Fri Nov 29 16:36:15 CST 1996 Message number: 39 Reply to message number: 37 S> kidknapping young boys and sending them out to be studs. Arnie Carlson is sa S> to be involved, many of the US men are supposedly from Minnesota. Jacob S> Wetterling is said to be one of these studs and his parents were paid off to S> keep quiet.... "Studs"? As in "strapping young lads...for your pleasure"? *teebo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MIDNIGHT WRITER To: ALL Subject: FBI Coverup Date: Fri Nov 29 22:15:54 CST 1996 Message number: 40 Reply to message number: unavailable I don't know much of the background of this one, but I tripped across it on Usenet, and immediately thought of this sub. ***** Beginning of quoted article TV COVER-UP OF WITNESS AT MARCY PARK From: Bill Mee {bill.mee@wcom.com) posted on the alt.current-events.clinton.whitewater Newsgroup - Washington, D.C. -The American Television Networks joined a massive cover-up of the truth tonight when they did not air a story that they filmed today. Patrick Knowlton and his attorney, John H. Clarke, were filmed and questioned by the press at 11:00 a.m. today on the steps of the U.S. District Court in Washington D.C. All the major networks CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN and almost 40 members of the American press took part. Mr. Knowlton, a key witness who was present at Fort Marcy Park on July 20, 1993, the date the body of deputy White House Counsel Vincent W. Foster was found, announced that he filed a suit late last month in U.S. District Court in the District of Columbia. The sealed suit opened today alleges obstruction of justice by FBI Agents detailed to the Office of the Independent Counsel under both Robert Fiske and Kenneth Starr. This suit alleges conspiracy to obstruct justice in violation of 42 U.S.C. 1985(2) and that, "the overall object of the conspiracy was to obstruct the investigation into the death of Vincent W. Foster, or to prevent or obstruct investigation into an FBI cover-up, or both." Instead of reporting this story ABC, CBS, and NBC selected to feature news about "Early snow in Cleveland", "Texaco Executives used racial slurs", "Clinton and Congress discussed Cooperation", "O.J.'s trial", "Jenny Jones Talk Show Murder", "Downsizing at Sunbeam", "Stress and Personality", Baby Boomers are Turning 50", "The John Huang Scandal", Congresswoman Edith Waldholtz's failed marriage", etc. Mr. Knowlton came forward to authorities to report what he had seen at the park on the afternoon of Foster's death. FBI agents tried to get him to change his story, and, failing that, they misrepresented Mr. Knowlton's account in their official reports. After Mr. Knowlton learned from a reporter that the FBI did not accurately record what he told them, his story was reported in a London newspaper. Two days after the story reached American newsstands, Kenneth Starr issued Mr. Knowlton a subpoena whereupon he was victimized by threats, harassment, and intimidation by 25 or more men. ------ Bill Mee ***** End of quoted article Now, I don't know what Mr. Knowlton's story actually is, but this report looks pretty bad for the FBI and freedom of the press in this country today. OTOH, it could be a case of the news networks looking at Mr. Knowlton's story, deciding that the guy must be some kind of nutcase, and deciding not to tell their viewers/readers about how Mr. Knowlton saw Elvis do the dirty deed. Just another brick in the wall... -==- --- ž JABBER v1.2 ž Mother, do you think they'll drop the bomb? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THROCKMORTON To: DEVIOUS Subject: Re: Department Of Defense Date: Tue Dec 03 11:42:20 CST 1996 Message number: 41 Reply to message number: unavailable D> In connection with the litigation concerning the operating location near >Groom Dry Lake, the Air Force has stressed its commitment to protecting the >environment and national security. We believe these goals are not >incompatible. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the state >enviromental regulators with appropriate clearances have inspected the >operating location and monitor the Air Force's efforts to further assure >compliance with environmental laws. The court held that EPA conducted a >"thorough inspection" and that the Air Force is adequately providing >information to EPA concerning the operating location. On several occasions, >the court has also held that the Air Force has properly classified informati >concerning the operating location. I don't read this paragraph as the Air Force doing some sort of environmental project. I read it as the Air Force going, "We're not telling what we're doing here, but whatever it is, it's not screwing up the environment." --- ž OLX 1.53 ž The thoughtless are rarely wordless. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVE THE LUCKY To: Midnight Writer Subject: Re: FBI Coverup Date: Mon Dec 09 14:01:51 CST 1996 Message number: 42 Reply to message number: 40 MW> Now, I don't know what Mr. Knowlton's story actually is, but this report MW> looks pretty bad for the FBI and freedom of the press in this country MW> today. MW> MW> OTOH, it could be a case of the news networks looking at Mr. Knowlton's MW> story, deciding that the guy must be some kind of nutcase, and deciding MW> not to tell their viewers/readers about how Mr. Knowlton saw Elvis do MW> the dirty deed. Actually, it could very easily be both. I don't know the details, either, but I do know that the mainstream news organizations in this country started shying away from negative stories about the Clintons when public opinion surveys "revealed" that the American public was getting sick of Pres-bashing. The reaction of hyper-conservative news organs like the American Specator have reacted to all of the anti-Clinton news with a tabloid voracity that would make the publisher of the Weekly World News blush. That very "tabloidization" of the Whitewater stories, the Vince Foster "murder" stories, etcetera, are the Administration's best defense; if people don't pay any attention to the stories, they won't have any negative reaction to them. "Sir, are ignorance and apathy the most pressing problems facing America?" "I don't know and I don't care." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFIRE To: Big Teebo Subject: Re: Hybriding Date: Thu Dec 19 10:39:41 CST 1996 Message number: 43 Reply to message number: 39 S> kidknapping young boys and sending them out to be studs. Arnie Carlson is sa S> to be involved, many of the US men are supposedly from Minnesota. Jacob S> Wetterling is said to be one of these studs and his parents were paid off to S> keep quiet.... BT> BT> "Studs"? As in "strapping young lads...for your pleasure"? Icky! The funny part about the word stud is that there are many people that believe that it is a compliment. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVE THE LUCKY To: Starfire Subject: Re: Hybriding Date: Thu Dec 19 13:09:21 CST 1996 Message number: 44 Reply to message number: 43 S> Icky! The funny part about the word stud is that there are many people that S> believe that it is a compliment. Well, it is, in a way. I mean, wouldn't you like a job where the only thing you had to do was sit around, eat, and have sex all day? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFIRE To: Dave The Lucky Subject: Re: Hybriding Date: Sat Dec 21 17:32:28 CST 1996 Message number: 45 Reply to message number: 44 S> believe that it is a compliment. DT> DT> Well, it is, in a way. DT> DT> I mean, wouldn't you like a job where the only thing you had to do was sit DT> around, eat, and have sex all day? Well I would think that it would be degrading seeing as that is "all one is good for" is implied. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: Starfire Subject: Re: Hybriding Date: Sun Dec 22 08:04:10 CST 1996 Message number: 46 Reply to message number: 45 S> Well I would think that it would be degrading seeing as that is "all one is S> good for" is implied. If you were payed to eat ice cream all day it would still be fun, even if it was all that you were good for. :) *teebo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVE THE LUCKY To: Starfire Subject: Re: Hybriding Date: Sun Dec 22 12:06:18 CST 1996 Message number: 47 Reply to message number: 45 DT> I mean, wouldn't you like a job where the only thing you had to do was sit DT> around, eat, and have sex all day? S> S> Well I would think that it would be degrading seeing as that is "all one is S> good for" is implied. Ah, moral judgements. In this sense, I find it interesting how morality appears to deform to fit expectations. You appears to have a personal expectation that you would be able to have sex if it were important to you, and as such, to be restricted to only having sex would be a limitation. For me, being able to have sex at will would be a tremendous boost to my self-image, since I am painfully aware that I am not able to have sex whenever and with whomever I choose. In addition, it goes without saying that if you are chosen to deliberately be the father of many pre-planned children, there must be something worthwhile about you. Being chosen would be a reflection of your value, not a degradation of it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFIRE To: Dave The Lucky Subject: Re: Hybriding Date: Wed Dec 25 11:23:02 CST 1996 Message number: 48 Reply to message number: 47 DT> Ah, moral judgements. In this sense, I find it interesting how morality DT> appears to deform to fit expectations. You appears to have a personal DT> expectation that you would be able to have sex if it were important to you, DT> and as such, to be restricted to only having sex would be a limitation. Fo I just happen to believe that being someone whose worth is only measured in the number of offspring that they are capable of producing degrading when they are not given the choice with whom or for what. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVE THE LUCKY To: Starfire Subject: Re: Hybriding Date: Wed Dec 25 15:10:28 CST 1996 Message number: 49 Reply to message number: 48 S> I just happen to believe that being someone whose worth is only measured in S> the number of offspring that they are capable of producing degrading when th S> are not given the choice with whom or for what. I, on the other hand, believe that were I to be thrown with various women for the sole purpose of reproduction enforced by an outside authority, I would very likely end up procreating with a much higher quality of woman than I could attract on my own. Far from degrading, my friend, I would find this liberating. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THROCKMORTON To: BIG TEEBO Subject: Re: Hybriding Date: Thu Dec 26 12:08:07 CST 1996 Message number: 50 Reply to message number: unavailable BT>S> Well I would think that it would be degrading seeing as that is "all one >S> good for" is implied. BT>If you were payed to eat ice cream all day it would still be fun, even if i >was all that you were good for. :) Only if you liked ice cream. --- ž OLX 1.53 ž I used to have a life, now I have a modem ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVE THE LUCKY To: Throckmorton Subject: Re: Hybriding Date: Thu Dec 26 14:49:54 CST 1996 Message number: 51 Reply to message number: 50 T> ž OLX 1.53 ž I used to have a life, now I have a modem AAH! Truth! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SMP To: All Subject: Hybriding Message Date: Fri Jan 03 03:31:53 CST 1997 Message number: 52 Reply to message number: unavailable Well I'm glad to see that my hybriding message kept you all entertained for a while. No updates yet, but it's still going down every day. Peace... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SIR ANDREW To: Dave The Lucky Subject: Re: Hybriding Date: Sun Jan 05 09:30:15 CST 1997 Message number: 53 Reply to message number: 51 T> ž OLX 1.53 ž I used to have a life, now I have a modem DT> DT> AAH! Truth! Yes, quite the truth. Did you ever wonder though why the government has allowed us to migrate online (BBSes, the net, etc.), where the possibility of people getting together with anti-government sentiments is much higher? If you were the government and you wanted to keep all your citizens happy, ill-informed, and conforming to everyone else, don't you think that letting all the 'non-conformist' types getting together would be a very bad thing? Why didn't our government put a stop to this before it started? I see two ways they could have easily killed both BBSing and the net - First, if in the court case back in the early '70s I think it was, where Ma Bell was trying to get the first modems outlawed because 'they used Bell equipment (telephone lines) to operate but were not made or approved by Bell'. All the government had to do was rule in Bell's case and there, most likely, would not be modems today. And secondly, if they wanted to kill the net, why not just get rid of ARPANET, the precusor to the real net. They saw & knew where it was headed, global communications, people from everywhere being able to get together, and the most likely also realized that they would have no way on controlling or enforcing it. So my question again is, why did our government allow us these toys to play with?? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Sir Andrew Subject: Re: Hybriding Date: Sun Jan 05 09:51:51 CST 1997 Message number: 54 Reply to message number: 53 SA> So my question again is, why did our government allow us these toys to play SA> with?? Because they alsoallow an open and available route to plant propaganda and control thoughts, and because they make us more vlunerable to them. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Sir Andrew Subject: Re: Hybriding Date: Sun Jan 05 11:53:43 CST 1997 Message number: 55 Reply to message number: 53 SA> Yes, quite the truth. Did you ever wonder though why the government has SA> allowed us to migrate online (BBSes, the net, etc.), where the possibility SA> people getting together with anti-government sentiments is much higher? As many times as I hear people discuss the "government", they seldom define what they mean by that. Are you referring to some sort of secret government, a dozeth of white-haired old rich guys ... or just a bunch of rubes who manage to get elected, serving interchangably in their appointed roles? Once we're on the same wavelength, I might be able to throw some comments in towards your question ... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BRIAREOS HECATONCHIRES To: Devious Subject: Re: a51 letter Date: Sun Jan 05 21:12:13 CST 1997 Message number: 56 Reply to message number: 18 Well, I have a pretty decent idea of what goes in there; nothing special. Maybe* aliens, but who cares, anyway? The existence of aliens would fuck everything up these days if info about it got out. Sure they'd classify it if they had some, but chances are good that alien tech is really so alien that it would be useless to us. I can buy aliens, but not aliens that look like 50s comic books (i.e. large eyes, nose slits, white bodies - like Close Encounters). that said, chances are good that the USAF is just testing their top secret stuff there. Recently, the SR-71 "Blackbird" spy plane was decommissioned. This thing was so fast that it couldn't carry weapons (it flew faster than the bullets or missiles it would have fired, meaning it would have hit them after they fired), and did its job utterly effectively. So why was it retired? The Aurora. The Aurora is the "press name" for the rumored new spy plane the Air Force has. It's supposed to be roughly delta-shaped, and capable of speeds in excess of Mach 7, making it the only aircraft capable of hypersonic speeds. People who have been hanging around A51, "watching", or whatever, have reported hearing huge sonic booms and the like. Which makes me think they actually might be telling the truth, at least about what they do there. I have absolutely no idea about the EPA stuff though. I don't know what kind of fuel an engine capable of hypersonic flight users, but it can't be healthy for humans. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVE THE LUCKY To: Sir Andrew Subject: Re: Hybriding Date: Mon Jan 06 15:00:35 CST 1997 Message number: 57 Reply to message number: 53 SA> If you were the government and you wanted to keep all your citizens happy, SA> ill-informed, and conforming to everyone else, don't you think that letting SA> all the 'non-conformist' types getting together would be a very bad thing? If I were the government, I'd be hopelessly schizophrenic. To speak of "the government" as a single entity is like speaking of "the white race" or "the average American"; there ain't no such animal. Think about it. Just one branch of our government is composed of over 530 individuals none of whom (despite Newt Gingrich's best efforts) think exactly alike. It's popular to say that the executive is just one man, but really he's one decision-maker supported by the opinions and research of dozens of appointed officials and hundreds of bureaucrats. President Clinton doesn't need to make domestic terrorism policy; that's what Janet Reno is for. Even in the staid judiciary, there is still a wide variety of opinions about the law, and there's enough precedent which has been allowed to grow unchecked that one could probably find legal support for almost any position. Now imagine, is there one person or small group of like-minded persons who could subtly manipulate this chaos to form an effective conspiracy? I think not. Clearly the elected officials in this country have common cause about some issues (no rioting in the streets, money is good, etc.), but I find government to fall victim to the "left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing" problem so often that it's ridiculous for me to fear. On the other hand, large corporations, while often being just as chaotic as government, are sometimes honed to a deadly sharp point of concentration. Take, for example, Microsoft. Did they become the dominant software/OS supplier in the world by accident? By dumb luck? Not on your life, which, by the way, they would gladly trade for another two years of market dominance. Religion, however, is the worst. Any organization with a charismatic leader has the potential to develop into fascism; most of these organizations have been religious. Remember the Moral Majority (which in fact was neither)? Anybody here think Ralph Reed and the Christian Coalition are just a bunch of backwater yahoos with no influence on public discourse? SA> First, if in the court case back in the early '70s I think it was, where Ma SA> Bell was trying to get the first modems outlawed because 'they used Bell SA> equipment (telephone lines) to operate but were not made or approved by Bel SA> All the government had to do was rule in Bell's case and there, most likely SA> would not be modems today. A good point, but government is not visionary, except in very rare circumstances. For example, I think the idea of the space program was visionary, but had the government remained visionary throughout the Apollo program (rather than descending into a Cold War competition with the Soviets), there would have been many more benefits than we have already seen. SA> And secondly, if they wanted to kill the net, why not just get rid of ARPAN SA> the precusor to the real net. They saw & knew where it was headed, global SA> communications, people from everywhere being able to get together, and the SA> most likely also realized that they would have no way on controlling or SA> enforcing it. Again, government was not visionary. A few people who designed ARPANET probably could have told you the inevitable result, but every policymaker alive back then would have dismissed you as a science-fiction addict; "next thing you know you'll be saying that aliens are being held captive in New Mexico somewhere..." With the election of "policy wonks" like the President and Gingrich, there is a greater chance of government beginning a visionary project--but inertia will kill any such program just like the space program was killed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SPECTER To: Briareos Hecatonchires Subject: Re: a51 letter Date: Tue Jan 07 15:30:20 CST 1997 Message number: 58 Reply to message number: 56 BH> The Aurora is the "press name" for the rumored new spy plane the Air Fo BH> has. It's supposed to be roughly delta-shaped, and capable of speeds in BH> excess of Mach 7, making it the only aircraft capable of hypersonic speeds. BH> People who have been hanging around A51, "watching", or whatever, have BH> reported hearing huge sonic booms and the like. Which makes me think they BH> actually might be telling the truth, at least about what they do there. I was reading in Popular Science a few... must be years ago... and they had an article on the supposed Aurora and the propulsion method it would most likely have been using. Anyway, they talked about sonic-booms measured in Nevada, and I think parts of California, where scientist types analyzed the measurements of some sonic booms they recorded and they determined that whatever object made the booms would have to have been traveling above Mach 5, so there is some fairly solid evidence that it exists. It's not too outlandish to have a hypersonic spy plane either, at our level of technology. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BRIAREOS HECATONCHIRES To: Specter Subject: Re: a51 letter Date: Tue Jan 07 19:31:25 CST 1997 Message number: 59 Reply to message number: 58 S> and I think parts of California, where scientist types analyzed the S> measurements of some sonic booms they recorded and they determined that S> whatever object made the booms would have to have been traveling above Mach S> so there is some fairly solid evidence that it exists. It's not too S> outlandish to have a hypersonic spy plane either, at our level of technology Yeah, I'd tend to agree. My high-school physics teacher said that when he was working at...er...A-Big-Military-Contractor's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, all of ten years ago, the engines necessary for hypersonic flight were eminently achievable. Or at least in the prototype stage, which is what the Aurora supposedly is. Still, I don't see why there was any special need to get rid of the Blackbird. It was fast as shit, did its job just fine, we had lots of them already... I guess there might be an advantage to hypersonic speeds if aerospace (planes that can fly in space, but take off and land from runways) catches on, but that's an era that's at least 30 or 40 years off, if it even happens. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SPECTER To: Briareos Hecatonchires Subject: Re: a51 letter Date: Wed Jan 08 12:58:31 CST 1997 Message number: 60 Reply to message number: 59 BH> Still, I don't see why there was any special need to get rid of the BH> Blackbird. It was fast as shit, did its job just fine, we had lots of them BH> already... I guess there might be an advantage to hypersonic speeds if BH> aerospace (planes that can fly in space, but take off and land from runways BH> catches on, but that's an era that's at least 30 or 40 years off, if it eve BH> happens. I don't see any particular need either. I understood that it was working just wonderfully for us. I'll be interested to see what they do with aerospace planes in the future, what they've worked up so far is so obviously behind the requirements in cost and technological advancement for it to become a real method of travel that I have trouble seeing it anywhere within the next 30 or 40 years. Of course with the changing rate of advancement in technology, we could have some of this stuff in 10 years, but that's unlikely. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: THROCKMORTON To: SIR ANDREW Subject: Re: Hybriding Date: Fri Jan 10 13:53:28 CST 1997 Message number: 61 Reply to message number: unavailable SA>Yes, quite the truth. Did you ever wonder though why the government has >allowed us to migrate online (BBSes, the net, etc.), where the possibility >people getting together with anti-government sentiments is much higher? SA>So my question again is, why did our government allow us these toys to play >with?? If we're busy playing with theses fancy toys and complaining to each other, we're to busy to do anything about whatever is being complained about. --- ž OLX 1.53 ž You're only young once. But you can always be immature. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DEAD MAN To: Dave The Lucky Subject: Re: Hybriding Date: Sat Feb 15 16:59:40 CST 1997 Message number: 62 Reply to message number: 57 DT> Think about it. Just one branch of our government is composed of over 530 DT> individuals none of whom (despite Newt Gingrich's best efforts) think exact DT> alike. It's popular to say that the executive is just one man, but really DT> he's one decision-maker supported by the opinions and research of dozens of DT> appointed officials and hundreds of bureaucrats. President Clinton doesn't DT> need to make domestic terrorism policy; that's what Janet Reno is for. Eve DT> in the staid judiciary, there is still a wide variety of opinions about the DT> law, and there's enough precedent which has been allowed to grow unchecked DT> that one could probably find legal support for almost any position. Does anyone actually know, in real numbers, how many "offical" people are involved with making the goverment's policy? I know it should be a huge number, but inside the following restrictions: 1) Federal Level (and up) 2) "involved with making the goverments policy" defined as: having a regular and, in even a medium-sized way, affecting the fedral level govermental control 3) realizing that some (or most) of them are elected, how much sway do the people exert over them once they get into office? And do they care? How many have been in office so long they just have to come back to their state for three weeks, be on the loser-local news, and bribe the editor to the communest local paper to get re-elected? . . . What percent of the United States of America's citizens are governing the rest? Dead Man-Dead Man ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: All Subject: Free Reign Date: Tue Feb 25 16:14:29 CST 1997 Message number: 63 Reply to message number: unavailable ------------------------- Via Workers World News Service Reprinted from the Feb. 20, 1997 issue of Workers World newspaper ------------------------- ANTHONY BAEZ CASE: SLAP ON WRIST FOR KILLER COP By Judi Cheng New York What is the penalty in the United States of America, in the City of New York, when a person carrying a gun grabs an unarmed man by the neck and chokes him to death? The penalty? The killer may be denied his civil-service pension. That is, if he happens to be a New York City police officer and his victim is a Puerto Rican worker living in the Bronx. The police officer's name is Francis Livoti. In spite of overwhelming evidence, he was found not guilty by a New York City judge. His victim's name was Anthony Baez, dead at age 29. On Feb. 7, five months after Officer Livoti was acquitted in criminal court, Rae D. Koshetz, the Police Department's deputy commissioner for trials, ruled in an administrative hearing that Livoti had used an illegal choke hold on Anthony Baez and should be dismissed and denied his pension. Livoti, a cop with a history of brutality, was driving his patrol car in the Morris Heights section of the Bronx on Dec. 22, 1994, when a football hit the top of the car. The ball belonged to Anthony Baez and his brother, who were playing ball in front of their home. In the confrontation that followed, Livoti choked Baez to death. Livoti was acquitted of criminally negligent homicide even though witnesses, including his colleagues, testified to the events of that night. During the criminal trial, police witnesses claimed that Baez died from an asthma attack. That contradicted the chief medical examiner's report that Baez's chest had been compressed and his throat had been choked closed. Livoti is still free today. Public support for the Baez family escalated into angry demonstrations. Oppressed people from the Bronx marched down to City Hall. The killing of Anthony Baez is just one example of the many murders by killer cops in this country each year. Without public pressure on the police department and other arms of the state, the Baez case would have been swept under the rug like the others. INTERNAL HEARING CALLS FOR LIVOTI'S DISMISSAL Despite the new ruling against Livoti, there isn't much to cheer for yet. Livoti won't be dismissed unless Police Commissioner Howard Safir upholds the ruling by Feb. 25. Livoti has filed for retirement. He will get a pension unless Safir supports the ruling. Iris Baez, Anthony Baez's mother, told Workers World: "We are going to try to push for public pressure. Livoti will lose his pension if and only if Safir brings in a guilty verdict. The Police Department knew what Livoti was all about and didn't do anything about it. The city allows this to happen. "This is one of many cases brought to light. Without public support, nothing could have been done." A special fund-raising event was held recently for the families of victims of police brutality, most of whom are very poor. The Baez family is suing the city for $48 million. - END - (Copyright Workers World Service: Permission to reprint granted if source is cited. For more information contact Workers World, 55 W. 17 St., NY, NY 10011; via e-mail: ww@wwpublish.com. For subscription info send message to: ww-info@wwpublish.com. Web: http://www.workers.org) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: Testing Pysc's Date: Fri May 02 17:13:20 CDT 1997 Message number: 64 Reply to message number: unavailable Ä Area: Skeptic ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ From: Sheppard Gordon Read: Yes Replied: No Subj: MillionDollar PsychicTest ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ Science: Putting psychics to the test 12/09/96 The Independent - London You could become a millionaire if you have psychic powers. A fortnight ago, James Randi, the magician and noted debunker of paranormal claims, announced that he has $1,073,000 waiting as a challenge prize for anyone who demonstrates psychic powers under controlled conditions. "Just ask for an application form: send a letter plus a stamped, self- addressed envelope to this address (international applicants can forget the stamp) and fill it out, have it notarised, make the claim, demonstrate it, and walk away with more than one million dollars! It's that simple," he said on his Internet mailing list recently. "Again I ask, why isn't the lobby of the James Randi Educational Foundation jammed with psychics? Perhaps they were waiting for the prize to be worthwhile? Well, now it is." If things go well, you might pick up another $1m from Uri Geller, who has promised to pay that to anyone who can bend the spoon in his transparent safe, via a link across the World Wide Web. (Though you will have to do it again in front of a representative from his insurance company.) But generally, these are hard times for those who approach all paranormal claims sceptically. (They are often known as skeptics - the "k" harks back to the American origins of their movement.) At June's World Congress to mark the 20th anniversary of the founding of the Committee for Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal (CSICOP), speakers contended that anti-science is growing everywhere, even within academia. Yet comparing polls since 1989 suggests little change in the public's belief in topics such as precognition, lucky charms, and exchanging messages with the dead. If anything, they're slightly down. A sample: in 1989 42 per cent of those polled said they believed in life after death, while 42 per cent said they didn't; by 1995 those numbers were 39 and 44 per cent respectively. The only exception is belief in flying saucers, which showed a small rise in belief, from 21 per cent yes and 69 per cent no to 24 per cent yes and 67 per cent no. But Randi, who has been investigating paranormal claims for more than 50 years, and was a founding fellow of CSICOP, questions the polls' accuracy. He cites other indicators: in 1965 Books in Print listed 131 books promoting paranormal claims; in 1996, it was 2,860. And look at homeopathic remedies (untested in double-blind trials) and the prevalence of programmes such as The X-Files, which some think is documentary. "If you had asked me six years ago, I would have been encouraged. But immediately after that there started a rapid slide downhill, and it's just catastrophic today. Scientifically, we're in a dark age," he says. The sceptics' attitude "is just so unpopular - to be logical, informed, to be rational. Thinking is out, acceptance is in." Earlier this year he set up The James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF), intended to conduct and finance research into paranormal claims, run classes and seminars, award scholarships, and maintain a library of relevant research material, including a presence on the World Wide Web. JREF also awards the annual Pigasus trophy ("trophies will be sent via psychokinesis"). And now there's that $1m awaiting a psychic willing to be tested. The prize won't be easily won. In 1986 Randi exposed the faith healing televangelist Peter Popoff by playing the information being fed into Popoff's ear by his wife backstage to nationwide television audiences. (Popoff had claimed that the information came from God.) Randi has tested dowsers in Australia, table-tippers in Italy, and, most recently, therapeutic touch practitioners in Colorado. But Randi is best known for challenging Uri Geller, the Israeli who since the Seventies has drawn attention to his claims that he is able to use the power of his mind to bend spoons, start stopped watches, read minds, and even speak to aliens. Randi does a very persuasive job of imitating parts of Geller's act using the tricks of the stage magician's trade. His experience with Geller demonstrates what a tricky business both testing psychic claims and reporting the results can be. In 1991, Geller sued CSICOP and Randi jointly over comments that Randi - then a member of CSICOP's executive council - made in an interview with the International Herald Tribune. Randi suggested that Geller had "tricked even reputable scientists" with techniques that "are the kind that used to be on the back of cereal boxes when I was a kid. Apparently scientists don't eat cornflakes any more." The case against CSICOP was dismissed in 1993, with Geller ordered to pay almost $150,000 in costs - though CSICOP later settled for $70,000. Randi and Geller settled separately in December 1994, when Geller's case was effectively dismissed, but without damages. Randi reckoned he was about $240, 000 out of pocket. Geller also sued Randi in a number of other countries, winning amounts under $5,000. Why does it matter to Randi or other sceptics whether Geller has the abilities he claims? The sceptics reply that if a human being really can bend metal using only his mind, it constitutes a serious challenge to humanity's store of accumulated scientific knowledge, painstakingly built up by careful research over the centuries. If you can't investigate such claims to open the way for further testing and debate and report the results, it is a loss to science and that public store of knowledge. What can be done? The state of Colorado has passed a law to tackle a similar problem, after environmentalists complained of legal harassment from companies which they accused of pollution. The Colorado law requires any suit in which government decisions are at stake (for example, permission to build a nuclear power plant) to pass a test to show that it's not frivolous. Perhaps something of the kind is needed to protect scientific inquiry in the field of paranormal research. Meanwhile, while Randi would say that $1m has never been safer, he himself is still at risk. And science is the loser. The Skeptic magazine can be reached at PO Box 275, Manchester M60 2TH, skeptic@cs.man.ac.uk, or http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/skeptic/. The James Randi Educational Foundation is at http://www.randi.org/ CSICOP is at http://www.csicop.org. -> Alice4Mac 2.4.4 E QWK Hiya:05Nov94 Origin: ----------> Jack Sargeant, you look fabulist! -!- PCBoard (R) v15.3/M 10 ! Origin: MoonDog BBS ž RIME NetHub Brooklyn,NY (1:278/15) ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Sandman Subject: Re: Testing Pysc's Date: Mon May 05 09:01:25 CDT 1997 Message number: 65 Reply to message number: 64 Speaking of psychics, I've been told that I have a clone out there: [IMAGE] [IMAGE] The Unbelievable but True !!! Michael Telstarr ENTERTAINER & MASTER of the PARANORMAL Michael began his professional career in 1978 at the age of 16. He currently holds 3 world records and is featured in the Guinness Book of World Records Museum for being the youngest artist to escape from Houdini's Chinese Water Torture Cell. He has spent the last 17 years touring Canada and the USA as a "Master Escape Artist and "Illusionist". Witness: * Witness TELSTARR'S Expertise in Telekinesis * Witness TELSTARR'S Uncanny Sleight of Mind * Witness TELSTARR'S Mind over Matter Predictions * Witness TELSTARR'S ability to light a fluorescent light bulb with the mear touch of his hand * Witness TELSTARR'S paranormal ability to utilize positive energy contained within his mind and that of the audience. He will work with the energy of the audience to transfer a highly charged positive feeling and show the students that each of us possesses the ability to access this same internal source which allows dreams to become reality. ______________________________________________________________________ ____ Laugh and enjoy yourself as he entertains you by picking a thought or picture right out of your mind. Perhaps he will select you as a volunteer to demonstrate he's aptitude for thought transference. Para-Hypnosis [IMAGE] [IMAGE] Telstarr puts subjects into hypnotic trance and simulates them watching a baseball game Telstarr does vanishing act after show with Susie Memorable Quotes: * .... "and the crowds you attracted are phenomenal, we could not have squeezed any more people in." M.S. Society of Canada. * ... "extremely talented, definitely a crowd pleaser." Universal Incorporated. Create the profitable event you desire! Promotional package and video available. _________________________________________________________________ Canada's only Paramentalist !!! _________________________________________________________________ Promotional Video available upon request. To request information on how Michael can liven up you special event, write to Telstarr #31-1106 Wilson Ave. Dept. T Toronto, Ontario Canada M3M 1GO, or E-Mail:inquire@world-famous.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: All Subject: Re: Testing Pysc's Date: Mon May 05 09:04:57 CDT 1997 Message number: 66 Reply to message number: 65 DR> Michael began his professional career in 1978 at the age of 16. He DR> currently holds 3 world records and is featured in the Guinness DR> Book DR> of World Records Museum for being the youngest artist to escape DR> from DR> Houdini's Chinese Water Torture Cell. He has spent the last 17 DR> years DR> touring Canada and the USA as a "Master Escape Artist and DR> "Illusionist". Yes, I am completely serious. Supposedly, Mr. Telstarr not only looks like me - he acts a lot like me, too. I'll have to reserve judgement until I can see a photo of this guy (I'm reduced to a text-only web connection right now), but if you want to compare for yourself ... http://www.world-famous.com (Click on "Michael Telstarr") http://www.hamline.edu/~erschime (Click on "Daedalus Rising") ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: Testing Pysc's Date: Thu May 08 10:28:51 CDT 1997 Message number: 67 Reply to message number: 66 DR> - he acts a lot like me, too. I'll have to reserve judgement until I can se DR> photo of this guy (I'm reduced to a text-only web connection right now), bu For Lynx users - Type "*" to reload w/ w/o images, highlight, and download. *teebo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: NWO Date: Wed May 14 21:02:21 CDT 1997 Message number: 68 Reply to message number: unavailable The NEW WORLD ORDER. Does it exist? Where is it? Who controls it? From what I have read on the bullshit coming from those who oppose the NWO (militias, christian identity, religious rightist) I have concluded that there is no such thing as a NWO that can be found in the UN, NATO, Whitehouse, or the Democratic party. What I am saying is that their is no conspiracy to overthrow local control, to gain contol over the food supply, or to take guns from citizens. There is no NWO. There is no movement to establish a NEW WORLD ORDER. Alot of the symptoms/evidence that those who fear the NWO can easily be attributed to other movements that have existed for centuries. For example the policies that have cause monopolies to form in the fields of agriculture can be tied to capitalism. Things like gun control, environmentalism, human rights, alliance building, cooperation between different state, and so on have been going since something called politics started. Maybe the NWO is just a term for something called evolution. Governments evolve. Policies evolve. Politics evolve. Religion evolve. The current WORLD ORDER will evolve as well. It will change in good ways and bad ways but there is no movement otherthan the the "natural" forces of human nature that will guide this evolution. Those who oppose the NWO fear the result of the evolution. They may not be the topdog anymore or they never were topdog. This leads me to wonder if the NWO does really exist. Not in the UN, NATO, ect., but in those who oppose the NWO. Their agenda includes a plan for a NWO of their own. A NWO where they are top dogs with all of the power or it will bring about some simple way of life for themselves. Different groups have different agenda some racist, some christian based, some gun rights based, and some political based. We all have plans for New World Orders. Some are good and some are bad. ... Of course I'm Pro-Life! It's my favorite magazine! ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: Big Teebo Subject: Re: Testing Pysc's Date: Fri Jun 06 11:06:19 CDT 1997 Message number: 69 Reply to message number: 67 BT> For Lynx users - Type "*" to reload w/ w/o images, highlight, and download. For Lynx users: Contact me for hacked PPP accounts and get outta the dark ages. (PPP/slip ROCKS.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ROSETTA To: Sandman Subject: nwo Date: Thu Jul 10 18:27:08 CDT 1997 Message number: 70 Reply to message number: unavailable hulk hogan will rule the world! hahaha seriously, maybe im misunderstanding you, but the only talk of a new world order that ive heard has had nothing to do with specific political bills and things like gun control or nato, but it does have to do with evolution. actually, a better way of putting it is to say it has to do with raising the collective conciousness of the entire planet. a spiritual thing, not a political thing. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Rosetta Subject: Re: nwo Date: Wed Jul 23 10:34:39 CDT 1997 Message number: 71 Reply to message number: 70 R> seriously, maybe im misunderstanding you, but the only talk of a new world R> order that ive heard has had nothing to do with specific political bills and R> things like gun control or nato, but it does have to do with evolution. R> actually, a better way of putting it is to say it has to do with raising the R> collective conciousness of the entire planet. a spiritual thing, not a R> political thing. Sort of the Gaia hypothesis coming to life, I take it? Is this supposed to be a deliberate thing crafted by humans, or nature kind of taking over again ...? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TEMP To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: nwo Date: Thu Jul 24 09:26:06 CDT 1997 Message number: 72 Reply to message number: 71 The gaia principle, I believe, uses humans to achieve a purpose unknown to humans. If it is true, humans have no control -- but will survive if they are good enough; so in that sense, they have some control. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LEMON To: All Subject: Gaia Date: Sat Jul 26 23:48:50 CDT 1997 Message number: 73 Reply to message number: unavailable That's an altruistic and silly theory. I prefer to explain things in a more concerete manner than "it's fate!" Belief in fate makes humans weak. -lemon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TEMP To: Lemon Subject: Re: Gaia Date: Sun Jul 27 12:14:03 CDT 1997 Message number: 74 Reply to message number: 73 my concept of the gaia principle is different: we survive if we aqre good enough, and we can control that. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: COSIMA To: Lemon Subject: Re: Gaia Date: Mon Jul 28 04:45:46 CDT 1997 Message number: 75 Reply to message number: 73 L> Belief in fate makes humans weak. * hehe...belief that *we* control our fates makes us foolish. -=c=- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LEMON To: Glenn Danzig Subject: alchemy Date: Tue Jul 29 23:40:21 CDT 1997 Message number: 76 Reply to message number: unavailable Uh - so what is uqra or whatever? And also - fate is not provable. So therefore it can not really be considered "foolish" to believe it does not exist. But if I had to choose between weakness and foolishness, I'd choose foolishness in a snap. Power is the ultimate. And if you have it, no one's really gonna have the chutspah to call you "foolish" are they? -lemon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TEMP To: Cosima Subject: Re: Gaia Date: Wed Jul 30 06:20:14 CDT 1997 Message number: 77 Reply to message number: 75 Did I read this here already? " tell yr plans for the day to God: she needs a good laugh" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BADLANDS To: Guh Subject: .. Date: Sun Aug 03 16:29:14 CDT 1997 Message number: 78 Reply to message number: 76 L> And also - fate is not provable. but the Bible is. C'mon. Get with the program. God is awesome! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TEMP To: Badlands Subject: bible Date: Mon Aug 04 04:27:31 CDT 1997 Message number: 79 Reply to message number: 78 yup there is a bible and a koran and a baghavad gita and confusius and the writing s of Chief Seattle and Mein Kampf and Leaves of Grass and Hofstedder and a great body of poetry and other stuff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BADLANDS To: Temp Subject: Re: bible Date: Mon Aug 04 18:26:01 CDT 1997 Message number: 80 Reply to message number: 79 no way. Everything else is preached by false prophets. Jesus knows *the* way. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LEMON To: ... Subject: ... Date: Thu Aug 07 21:35:48 CDT 1997 Message number: 81 Reply to message number: unavailable Ha ha ha Mua ha ha. ha ha god. -lemon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TEMP To: All Subject: by god Date: Fri Aug 08 20:12:05 CDT 1997 Message number: 82 Reply to message number: 81 Is God a conspiracy? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BADLANDS To: All Subject: 000 Date: Fri Aug 08 20:31:07 CDT 1997 Message number: 83 Reply to message number: unavailable So... is God real to y'all yet? Has The Way been made clear? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TEMP To: Badlands Subject: Re: 000 Date: Sat Aug 09 06:57:53 CDT 1997 Message number: 84 Reply to message number: 83 god takes pretty good careo f herself, as far as I can see or hear. Us poets keep trying to pave the way. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LEMON To: .. Subject: ... Date: Thu Aug 14 10:12:42 CDT 1997 Message number: 85 Reply to message number: unavailable Yes Badlands, I have been shown the way. I now intend to become a mormon, and by doing so I refuse to involve myself in anything under the power of satan. So I will no longer call this BBS. Let us pray Our father, our mother Our sister, our brother Let them all be as stupid as we Who pray to these holy three Let us convert, let us annoy Let us all rape the altar boys Amen -lemon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TEMP To: Lemon Subject: Re: ... Date: Fri Aug 15 17:51:26 CDT 1997 Message number: 86 Reply to message number: 85 we dont have to be a priest first -- / ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TEMP To: All Subject: mcVeigh Date: Fri Aug 15 17:52:41 CDT 1997 Message number: 87 Reply to message number: unavailable is mcVeigh going to take the office of martyr among a large number of alienated people? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SPECTER To: Temp Subject: Re: mcVeigh Date: Sat Aug 16 04:16:07 CDT 1997 Message number: 88 Reply to message number: 87 T> is mcVeigh going to take the office of martyr among T> a large number of alienated people? Among those who feel alienated and are hostile to the government to begin with, I'd think he would become a martyr of their cause. However, he did kill 168 people, and this will definitely decrease his attrativeness as a symbolic martyr. If he had killed FBI agents or ATF agents I think his death would be more symbolic, but he killed children and women, and this will make him unlikely to be given martyr status. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TEMP To: Specter Subject: Re: mcVeigh Date: Sun Aug 17 05:11:06 CDT 1997 Message number: 89 Reply to message number: 88 S> symbolic martyr. If he had killed FBI agents or ATF agents I think his deat S> would be more symbolic, but he killed children and women, and this will make S> him unlikely to be given martyr status. I hope it goes that way. By the time appeals are done the govt should be able to judge this. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SPECTER To: Temp Subject: Re: mcVeigh Date: Sun Aug 17 05:51:48 CDT 1997 Message number: 90 Reply to message number: 89 T> I hope it goes that way. By the time appeals are done T> the govt should be able to judge this. Yes, very true. Of course if it turns out that McVeigh is given martyr status, then the government has a huge problem on its hands... How do they deal with people who would be extreme enough to make a martyr of McVeigh? Waiting until they all blow something up and then arresting them doesn't work. And if past history means anything they can't really take any action against them, without furthering their hatred of the government, and possibly inspiring more violence. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: LEMON To: Martyr Dumb Subject: ... Date: Mon Aug 18 22:04:48 CDT 1997 Message number: 91 Reply to message number: unavailable Of course he's gonna be a martyr. He blew up a building because of his beliefs. He killed swads of people. But most importantly - He didn't give out a single name, and stood straightfaced through the entire ordeal. -lem'n ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BADLANDS To: All Subject: . Date: Thu Aug 21 22:15:27 CDT 1997 Message number: 92 Reply to message number: unavailable It makes me glad to hear that so many have been turned from the Dark Path. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BADLANDS To: Badlands Subject: Re: . Date: Wed Sep 03 19:37:56 CDT 1997 Message number: 93 Reply to message number: 92 and to have to replies chastising me! Indeed, my heart is filled with gladness.