------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: All Subject: Activism Date: Tue Mar 07 06:03:40 CST 1995 Message number: 1 Reply to message number: unavailable This is a base to post calls to action ... be it school rallies, nuclear plant protest or presidential picketing. Just be sure to include information on how others can get involved. That's the entire point of this base. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Starfox Subject: Re: The Whiners Date: Tue Jul 02 13:47:05 CDT 1996 Message number: 2 Reply to message number: -7 F> kids' best interests at heart. Most of us who oppose the CDA recognize that F> this is a realistic problem, but do not believe that the way the CDA F> approaches it is the solution to the problem. S> S> If these kids cant figure reality, from Cyber, they dont belong here anyways S> Hmm. The kids know very well how to work with this medium, although they are sometimes immature about what they do with it. It is the ADULTS who do not understand it, do not choose to learn about it, and are quick to swallow something someone else says about it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Starfox Subject: Re: The Whiners Date: Tue Jul 02 13:51:57 CDT 1996 Message number: 3 Reply to message number: -5 S> Pro-family means that their interuptation of what a family is will S> be forced upon all of us. S> S> Yeah, and when one of those guys says: "I AM FOR PRO FAMILY" he is really S> saying "HAY ALL U HACKERS/SOCIAL-REJECTS/FREAKS! WE ARE GONNA MAKE YOUR LIF S> MISERABLE, and you OLD GUYS OUT THERE, NO MORE PORN! GO GET MARRIED! so HA S> No same-gender relationships, including roommates (who knows what 2 women might do when they are alone in the dark?). No interracial relationships. No using drugs or alcohol (except, of course, legal drugs like Valium). No single individuals living alone, because that isn't a family. No single-parent families either. No reading books or watching films other than those approved by the church. My church, of course. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Starfox Subject: Re: Sex Ed Date: Tue Jul 02 13:52:47 CDT 1996 Message number: 4 Reply to message number: -3 S> Sex Ed in my experience is not a study of sexual intercourse (as S> being penis in vagina), but tend to be about the sexual S> reproduction in its entirely. S> S> Yeah, Sounds like porn to me. Nah, porn is where someone is depicted having fun doing it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: STARFOX Subject: Re: The Whiners Date: Tue Jul 02 14:43:34 CDT 1996 Message number: 5 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Starfox to Daedalus Rising <=- DR> kills, "12-year old Johnny went to summer camp for 2 weeks and was expose DR> pronography. When he got back, he raped a 3-year old girl" ... and then St> HELL! What the heck do they call the sex ed they teach us? Looks St> like porn to me! ok, maybe this might happen too! -- A 13 Yr old boy St> is in sex-ed for a semester, after, he knows a hell of a lot about St> it, and goes and rapes some chic !! Please don't give them any ideas, they're creative enough the way it is. These same people are probably against sex ed too, at least anything that goes beyond "just don't do it". ... Money can't buy happiness, but allows a choice of misery. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: BIG TEEBO Subject: Re: the man Date: Tue Jul 02 14:43:35 CDT 1996 Message number: 6 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Big Teebo to All <=- BT> Then you realize nobody ever had a vested interest in teaching that BT> to you anytime in your life, so wouldn't it be nice to have a class BT> in school just on activism so that kids actually start thinking that BT> they can do something to turn things around instead of just wallowing BT> in angst? It's not as simple, or as complex as that. It's a systemic problem, meaning that the schools teach apathy only because the culture teaches apathy. And it's not as complex as teaching a class, because it's something that everyone of us can do - just find a few people with a common interest, form a group and do something. Experience is the bat teacher, far better than a classroom ever would be. ... "The dawn of the 3rd age of mankind is... jee, look at the time!" -JMS ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: SANDMAN Subject: Re: Sex Ed Date: Tue Jul 02 14:43:36 CDT 1996 Message number: 7 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Sandman to Starfox <=- Sa> Hmmmm.... From my experiences on BBS's the concept of people Sa> being liberal when they are young and conservative when they are Sa> older has some what changed. Sa> I have found that many of the 12-18 year old set tote very Sa> conservative lines. Sa> Anti-Abortion. Sa> Pro-Religious Right. Sa> Anti-liberal. You have to recognize the time period they grew up in, too ... they came of age during the Reagan years, just as many who grew up during FDR's New Deal are still unabashed Democrats. That being said, I think that most peopel my age (22) are apathetic more than anything else. They don't see the connection between personal action and systemic change. And in many ways, I can't blame them. Sa> It's the blood in the gut feeling of hate that the right provides Sa> against the faceless LIBERAL, Poor Person, or other. There might be some of that, but I don't think that most young conservatives are selfish. They're just into the ideologiccally pure movement. Interesting thing I saw at the Kaposia Days parade over in SSP this past weekend. Though this is somewhat of a generalization, the Wellstone crew was mostly about my age, diverse in both gender and appearance. In the (smaller) Boschwitz crew, however, all I saw were young, white, short-haired preppy males. I'm not saying that's all that he had with him, but they certainly stood out. ... The best defense against logic is stupidity. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: Starfox Subject: Re: The Whiners Date: Tue Jul 02 16:08:50 CDT 1996 Message number: 8 Reply to message number: -7 S> If these kids cant figure reality, from Cyber, they dont belong here anyways S> Hmm. Kind of like if Barnes and Noble has a section of books that wouldn't be appropriate for children, you wouldn't let them in the store at all, right? *teebo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: Starfox Subject: Re: the man Date: Tue Jul 02 16:10:26 CDT 1996 Message number: 9 Reply to message number: -6 BT> I've been thinking lately, this system is pretty terrible (I'm a cynic, sor S> Works fine for me. That's what the rich bergouis(?) always says, silly. Reminds me of the golden rule, "He who has the gold makes the rules." *teebo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: Starfox Subject: Re: Sex Ed Date: Tue Jul 02 16:12:17 CDT 1996 Message number: 10 Reply to message number: -2 S> Except me. I do have a brain, and I do listen to other peoples Ideas. Everybody says that, I'm not disagreeing with you, far from. I'm just saying that it's a very biased thing, so you have to leave it up to others to say that about you. *teebo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: Big Teebo Subject: Re: The Whiners Date: Tue Jul 02 16:50:46 CDT 1996 Message number: 11 Reply to message number: 8 BT> Kind of like if Barnes and Noble has a section of books that wouldn't be BT> appropriate for children, you wouldn't let them in the store at all, right? Uhh Right.. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: Big Teebo Subject: Re: the man Date: Tue Jul 02 16:52:11 CDT 1996 Message number: 12 Reply to message number: 9 S> Works fine for me. BT> BT> That's what the rich bergouis(?) always says, silly. I cant name one way it is hurting me. I am alive, get food, Hmm I even have a $2,000 machine in my bedroom, with it's own BBS line! Hmm .s ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: Big Teebo Subject: Re: Sex Ed Date: Tue Jul 02 16:53:11 CDT 1996 Message number: 13 Reply to message number: 10 BT> Everybody says that, I'm not disagreeing with you, far from. I'm just sayi BT> that it's a very biased thing, so you have to leave it up to others to say BT> that about you. What if I have multiple personalities ? :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: BIG TEEBO Subject: the man Date: Tue Jul 02 21:58:12 CDT 1996 Message number: 14 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Big Teebo to All <=- BT> I've been thinking lately, this system is pretty terrible (I'm a BT> cynic, sorry) but it's the best one going right now. So, what if we BT> worked within the system to change it, the way it was origionally BT> built? Okay, that's great, then you ask yourself what needs to be BT> changed and you get a whole bunch of ideas. Then you think, how the BT> hell am I going to do that? Then you realize nobody ever had a vested BT> interest in teaching that to you anytime in your life, so wouldn't it BT> be nice to have a class in school just on activism so that kids BT> actually start thinking that they can do something to turn things BT> around instead of just wallowing in angst? Teaching about activism? The best way to do this would be to study the history of activists that have succeeded and failed. Look at the Anti-War efforts in the 60's. Look at what the Religious Right is doing now. Study the tactics of the past and the techniques that exist today in the various activist groups. The future can be found in the past. ... All I need is a Wave and a board to surf it on. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: Starfox Subject: Re: The Whiners Date: Wed Jul 03 03:29:42 CDT 1996 Message number: 15 Reply to message number: 11 BT> Kind of like if Barnes and Noble has a section of books that wouldn't be BT> appropriate for children, you wouldn't let them in the store at all, right? S> S> Uhh Right.. Sounds kind of overbearing, I'm surprised that you said that. Could you explain your reasoning a bit please? *teebo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: Starfox Subject: Re: the man Date: Wed Jul 03 03:31:37 CDT 1996 Message number: 16 Reply to message number: 12 BT> That's what the rich bergouis(?) always says, silly. S> S> I cant name one way it is hurting me. I am alive, get food, Hmm I even have S> $2,000 machine in my bedroom, with it's own BBS line! Hmm That's exactly what I'm saying, the wealthy and powerfull of the dominant race and sex would never have a complaint. This entire country was founded on the powerfull making the laws, and then having the laws serve them. (In a loose sense at least.) *teebo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: Big Teebo Subject: Re: The Whiners Date: Wed Jul 03 06:17:57 CDT 1996 Message number: 17 Reply to message number: 15 S> Uhh Right.. BT> BT> Sounds kind of overbearing, I'm surprised that you said that. Could you BT> explain your reasoning a bit please? I have no reason... I didnt catch what you were saying ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: SANDMAN Subject: Re: the man Date: Wed Jul 03 07:16:23 CDT 1996 Message number: 18 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Sandman to Big Teebo <=- Sa> Teaching about activism? The best way to do this would be to Sa> study the history of activists that have succeeded and failed. Sa> Look at the Anti-War efforts in the 60's. Sa> Look at what the Religious Right is doing now. Sa> Study the tactics of the past and the techniques that exist today Sa> in the various activist groups. That's exactly what the religious right did - they got most of their tactics from the unions, circa 1930 or so. Sa> The future can be found in the past. In some ways. In a real sense though, the past never repeats itself. So the trick is to recognize not only the `patterns', but also what's different each time. ... Let no good deed go unpunished. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: All Subject: AT&T Date: Wed Jul 03 20:01:23 CDT 1996 Message number: 19 Reply to message number: unavailable HOW TO GET $30 A DAY FROM AT&T - By: Tesla ------------------------------------------- You can earn $30 per day from the local BELL payphone and AT&T will be the ones paying it. AND even if you get caught, which you won't, there is nothing that can be done, thanks to the FCC and AT&T's current ILLEGAL monopoly on DIAL-1 calls from BELL PAY TELEPHONES ----------------------------------------------------------------- This article was written in retaliation for FEDERAL CRIMINAL COURT CASE #93-133 in the US DISTRICT COURT of WESTERN PENNSYLVANIA titled, "USA vs KEITH MAYDAK ET AL" This case is based on fraudulent and false claims by AT&T. We will not tolerate this. Be advised, Keith Maydak does not condone stealing from AT&T nor has he authorized this notation. We have taken it upon ourselves to spread the word that AT&T is a giant rip-off. It's all part of the I-SCAM! The AT&T I-SCAM. I is for IDIOT. Idiot=anyone who has AT&T for dial-1 long distance. =================================================== Okay, I don't know if you know this, but AT&T is the long-distance carrier at all GTE, BELL, and ALLTEL pay telephones when it comes to DIAL-1 CALLS. Even if you dial 10222(MCI)+1+ACN, AT&T gets paid for the call. EVEN IF THE PHONE SAYS MCI, IT'S STILL AT&T. This is due to, "technical limitations on coin telephones" HELLO!!!!!!! AT&T BUILT THE GODDAM SYSTEM, WHY CAN'T THEY CHANGE IT? They could, they won't, why should they? They build the ESS SWITCH! WHY SHOULD THEY MAKE IT SO DIAL 1 CAN BE ACCESSED BY ALL. ENOUGH, let's learn how to get money. ------------------------- Okay, dial this from your local pay station: 011-871-1101101# The Operator will come on confused and say something like, "$32.70 please" or "what are you calling" If she doesn' tell you the rate, ask her. It's usually anywhere from $28.50 to $33.00 depending on where you are. Why so much? It's a boat. And this is the rate. NOW HANG UP! Now, call 10288-0 wait for the operator. Ask for a supervisor. (NOTE: YOU DON'T HAVE TO, BUT the regular operator will just listen to your story and put her supervisor on, so just do it this way.) AT&T: Service assistant, may I help you? - 236 - YOU: Yes, this is absurd. I called this number and the AT&T operator said it was $32.00 (or whatever the rate is). She made me put $3.00 in at a time and then connected the call. Right after the call answered the party was disconnected. I didn't get my money back. AT&T: Umm, yeah, right. What number did you dial YOU: 011-871-1101-101 Check the rate. AT&T: <> Okay sir, we'll mail you a refund, what is your name and address? YOU: NAME & ADDRESS (go ahead, don't be shy, they'll mail your money, they have to, FCC RULES SECTION 47 of US CODE) Do this daily from different pay stations. PROBLEMS: Okay, AT&T operators are all mean and will give you shit. You need to be prepared to answer some questions. AT&T: We don't have a call that much, are you sure it was AT&T? YOU: Yes, it says, "AT&T" they operator said, "AT&T may I help you." AT&T: I can't make a check that high. (she's right) YOU: Can you send two checks for $15 each (that she can do) AT&T: Where did you get all the change? YOU: I don't like being called a liar, what was your name again? The store her had no problem giving it to me! This is absurd. AT&T: I talked to you yesterday. YOU: Yes, it happened yesterday too. AT&T: We'll send a man out to check the payphone. YOU: Good. That's a good idea. In the mean time, can you put in for my refund? (they can't send a man, it ain't there phone) AT&T: I requested a refund, but they will look into it. YOU: I hope they do. (they won't) NOTES: ALWAYS GET HER OPERATOR NUMBER If you don't get your $30.00 bitch. Even go to the FCC. Some operators just don't put in for it. We have done this over 300 times for a profit of $10,000. Nearly 90% send your money especially if you are pissed. AT&T issues over 10,000 refunds per week and it's all automatic. Do not worry about them addig this all up. There's nothing they can do. They can't accuse you of lying, they could be sued. IT's never happened, but if it does, remember: - 237 - 1. They have no clue how much money is in the payphone 2. It ain't there phone 3. They are required to send the refund by law 4. The only people who ever get busted are those who admit shit; why do you think Feds and cops always tell you they have evidence you better talk. If they had enough to convict you, they wouldn't want you to talk. HOWEVER, THIS WORKS FINE EVERYTIME And, don't feel bad. AT&T does not deserve to profit from payphones. They are theives. Scamming crooks. THEY HAVE AN ILLEGAL MONOPOLY ON PAY TELEPHONES! Give this to all your phriends a it's just another part of AT&T's way to rip off the world: THE I SCAM. I FOR IDIOT. -------------------- ATTN: AT&T EMPLOYEES: GO AHEAD GIVE THIS TO CORPORATE SECURITY. BETTER YET, WE'LL FAX IT TO THEM FOR YOU! I HATE TO TELL YOU PEOPLE, BUT CORPORATE SECURITY GESTAPO ARE NOT POLICE THEY HAVE NO AUTHORITY. NO-ONE IS AFRAID OF THEM. ALSO, REMEMBER, OUR GOOD ARTICLES AREN'T OUT YET. THEY WILL BE. COMING SOON FROM TESLA, THANKS TO AT&T. WE'LL SEE YOU IN BANKRUPTCY COURT. BASTARDS. Thanks to StarŸox. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: Starfox Subject: Re: The Whiners Date: Thu Jul 04 03:29:41 CDT 1996 Message number: 20 Reply to message number: 17 S> Uhh Right.. BT> Sounds kind of overbearing, I'm surprised that you said that. Could you BT> explain your reasoning a bit please? S> I have no reason... I didnt catch what you were saying Maybe you should read what I have to say next time instead of not understanding and then agreeing with me, especially since I was being sarcastic. *teebo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: Big Teebo Subject: Re: The Whiners Date: Thu Jul 04 19:17:05 CDT 1996 Message number: 21 Reply to message number: 20 BT> understanding and then agreeing with me, especially since I was being BT> sarcastic. Hmm so was I. Go figure. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: Starfox Subject: Re: The Whiners Date: Fri Jul 05 13:39:49 CDT 1996 Message number: 22 Reply to message number: 21 BT> understanding and then agreeing with me, especially since I was being BT> sarcastic. S> Hmm so was I. S> Go figure. It be great if you could communicate this in the future, and it further didn't seem like it since you even said you didn't know what I was talking about. *teebo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: Big Teebo Subject: Re: The Whiners Date: Fri Jul 05 19:04:34 CDT 1996 Message number: 23 Reply to message number: 22 BT> understanding and then agreeing with me, especially since I was being BT> sarcastic. S> Hmm so was I. S> Go figure. BT> BT> It be great if you could communicate this in the future, and it further did BT> seem like it since you even said you didn't know what I was talking about. No say this "Nic Do you even care? " hell, I will even awnser it for you .. "No I dont give a rats a$$ about anything no more. Life sux. " Go figure. Lets get an intelegent conversation going. And dont tell me I am acting like a "Kid" cause guess what.. I AM A KID!!!!!!! Go figure. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: Starfox Subject: Re: The Whiners Date: Sat Jul 06 03:57:10 CDT 1996 Message number: 24 Reply to message number: 23 S> No say this "Nic Do you even care? " So why do you continue to ramble on about this? S> hell, I will even awnser it for you .. "No I dont give a rats a$$ about S> anything no more. Life sux. " Nihilistic angst is great and all, but it'd be really excellent if you could wallow up out of your self pity once and a while and impress upon us your intelligence (which I know is in there) instead of the ol' circular logic drunken rants. S> Go figure. Lets get an intelegent conversation going. And dont tell me I a S> acting like a "Kid" cause guess what.. I AM A KID!!!!!!! Guess what, your only about a year younger than I am. Go figure. *teebo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: Big Teebo Subject: Re: The Whiners Date: Sat Jul 06 06:35:53 CDT 1996 Message number: 25 Reply to message number: 24 BT> So why do you continue to ramble on about this? THE DEVIL MADE ME DO IT!!!! AHHHH BT> Nihilistic angst is great and all, but it'd be really excellent if you coul BT> wallow up out of your self pity once and a while and impress upon us your BT> intelligence (which I know is in there) instead of the ol' circular logic BT> drunken rants. Because it is the summer, and I am bored, and know that you, or someone will kepp this going therefore I have something to do :) BT> Guess what, your only about a year younger than I am. You also probably have something to do. hehe TTYL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: Starfox Subject: Re: The Whiners Date: Sat Jul 06 07:05:05 CDT 1996 Message number: 26 Reply to message number: 25 S> THE DEVIL MADE ME DO IT!!!! AHHHH Yeah, that's what I thought. :) *teebo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: REV. THORN To: Starfox Subject: Re: The Whiners Date: Sat Jul 06 15:39:39 CDT 1996 Message number: 27 Reply to message number: -13 S> HELL! What the heck do they call the sex ed they teach us? Looks like porn S> to me! ok, maybe this might happen too! -- A 13 Yr old boy is in sex-ed fo S> a semester, after, he knows a hell of a lot about it, and goes and rapes S> some chic !! S> S> Well.. I guess that is from the eyes of a 15 yr old. NEXT.. i'm not one to support things like the cda, but when in sex ed, or any state sponsored class, have you seen an 11 year old girl, doubled over a chair, and being ? that is pronography. rev. dork ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: Rev. Thorn Subject: Re: The Whiners Date: Sat Jul 06 16:03:31 CDT 1996 Message number: 28 Reply to message number: 27 RT> being i'm not one to support things like the cda, but when in sex ed, or any stat RT> sponsored class, have you seen an 11 year old girl, doubled over a chair, a RT> being that is pronography. RT> Did you really see this in a sex ed class? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: Rev. Thorn Subject: Re: The Whiners Date: Sun Jul 07 11:22:28 CDT 1996 Message number: 30 Reply to message number: 27 RT> i'm not one to support things like the cda, but when in sex ed, or any stat RT> sponsored class, have you seen an 11 year old girl, doubled over a chair, a RT> being that is pronography. No, I guess that is your idea of it. The ideas of things like that are different from person to person, that is another reason the CDA is so stupid ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Starfox Subject: Re: The Whiners Date: Sun Jul 07 17:43:52 CDT 1996 Message number: 31 Reply to message number: 30 RT> sponsored class, have you seen an 11 year old girl, doubled over a chair, a RT> being that is pronography. S> S> No, I guess that is your idea of it. The ideas of things like that are S> different from person to person, that is another reason the CDA is so stupid No. If I am assuming correctly what he is describing, it is considered porn in almost everybody's system, and therefore defined as porn. The problem with the CDA is not its treatent of porn, which is alreadt covered by other laws anyway, but with its banning of the uncertain class called "indecent." A prretty well-known example of this is what happened when Compuserve decided to define the use of the word "breast" as indecent. So it was banned to discuss breast cancer treatments, list times and locations of breast cancer recovery programs, etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: Froggy Subject: Re: The Whiners Date: Sun Jul 07 20:03:11 CDT 1996 Message number: 32 Reply to message number: 31 F> No. If I am assuming correctly what he is describing, it is F> considered porn in almost everybody's system, and therefore defined as porn. thats what I actually ment F> Compuserve decided to define the use of the word "breast" as indecent. So it F> was banned to discuss breast cancer treatments, list times and locations of F> breast cancer recovery programs, etc. Yeah.. Hell, we wouldnt want johny to know what a "Bre*st" is now would we? Duhhhhhh ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DARING DIANE J. To: DAEDALUS RISING Subject: Re: Sex Ed Date: Sun Aug 04 13:40:20 CDT 1996 Message number: 33 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Daedalus Rising to Sandman <=- -=> Quoting Sandman to Starfox <=- DR> That being said, I think that most peopel my age (22) are apathetic DR> more than anything else. They don't see the connection between DR> personal action and systemic change. And in many ways, I can't blame DR> them. Could it be that the version of "history" they were "taught" in public schools is a whitewash of cruel realities? The more I learn about what REALLY happened in the past, the less apathetic I become. I learn that systemic change can occur when people get unbrainwashed from what the dominant culture teaches them. I am 39 and I have seen big changes in my lifetime because some courages folks stood up to dominant culture crap and worked for change. One example: I am eternally grateful to feminists for setting me free. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFIRE To: Daring Diane J. Subject: Re: Sex Ed Date: Sun Aug 04 17:51:27 CDT 1996 Message number: 34 Reply to message number: 33 DD> worked for change. One example: I am eternally grateful to feminists DD> for setting me free. I personally don't think that the goal of equality is anywhere near reached. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: Daring Diane J. Subject: Re: Sex Ed Date: Sun Aug 04 19:11:58 CDT 1996 Message number: 35 Reply to message number: 33 DD> worked for change. One example: I am eternally grateful to feminists DD> for setting me free. Stop there. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: Starfox Subject: Re: Sex Ed Date: Mon Aug 05 08:16:28 CDT 1996 Message number: 36 Reply to message number: 35 DD> worked for change. One example: I am eternally grateful to feminists DD> for setting me free. S> S> Stop there. S> S> Thank you. What's that supposed to mean? *teebo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFOX To: Big Teebo Subject: Re: Sex Ed Date: Mon Aug 05 10:10:31 CDT 1996 Message number: 37 Reply to message number: 36 BT> What's that supposed to mean? DOH it means .. S> Stop there. S> S> Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DARING DIANE J. To: DAEDALUS RISING Subject: Re: Sex Ed Date: Tue Aug 20 18:23:10 CDT 1996 Message number: 38 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Daedalus Rising to Sandman <=- -=> Quoting Sandman to Starfox <=- DR> That being said, I think that most peopel my age (22) are apathetic DR> more than anything else. They don't see the connection between DR> personal action and systemic change. And in many ways, I can't blame DR> them. Could it be that the version of "history" they were "taught" in public schools is a whitewash of cruel realities? The more I learn about what REALLY happened in the past, the less apathetic I become. I learn that systemic change can occur when people get unbrainwashed from what the dominant culture teaches them. I am 39 and I have seen big changes in my lifetime because some courages folks stood up to dominant culture crap and worked for change. One example: I am eternally grateful to feminists for setting me free. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DARING DIANE J. To: STARFIRE Subject: Re: Sex Ed Date: Tue Aug 20 18:23:15 CDT 1996 Message number: 39 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Starfire to Daring Diane J. <=- DD> worked for change. One example: I am eternally grateful to feminists DD> for setting me free. St> I personally don't think that the goal of equality is anywhere near St> reached. Yes, you are correct, Starfire. However, there is a difference between being equal in the treatment I get from society and the mental freedom I personally feel because I no longer feel my mind shackled to the lies which kept me oppressed for years. My mind is freer than ever before. That is cause to celebrate. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: STARFIRE To: Daring Diane J. Subject: Re: Sex Ed Date: Fri Aug 23 11:06:50 CDT 1996 Message number: 40 Reply to message number: 39 DD> Yes, you are correct, Starfire. However, there is a difference between DD> being equal in the treatment I get from society and the mental freedom I DD> personally feel because I no longer feel my mind shackled to the lies which DD> kept me oppressed for years. My mind is freer than ever before. That is DD> cause to celebrate. I wish that we could gain equality but I know that some people believe that we have reached it and now we want special treatment. That is not what I want. I want to have an exactly equal opportunity as anyone that is as fitted for the job as I am. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: DARING DIANE J. Subject: Re: Indocrination Date: Fri Aug 23 12:34:42 CDT 1996 Message number: 41 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Daring Diane J. : DR> That being said, I think that most peopel my age (22) are apathetic DR> more than anything else. They don't see the connection between DR> personal action and systemic change. And in many ways, I can't blame DR> them. DDJ> Could it be that the version of "history" they were "taught" in public DDJ> schools is a whitewash of cruel realities? The more I learn about DDJ> what REALLY happened in the past, the less apathetic I become. In two major ways, yes. First, when people learn history, they learn about he major players - the Martin Luther Kings, the Lincolns, etc. They don't often learn about the hundreds and thousands of people working behind the scenes to make sure that these people could rise to prominence and enact change. Secondly, the way `civics' class is taught is generally very passive. People vote and politicos execute - the process of party politics, protest and lobbying isn't really mentioned. So even if people feel a need to change things, tehy often don't know where to start. ... Fuck! ... damn, there goes another $250,000. Thanks, Senator Exon! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: STARFIRE Subject: Re: Equality Date: Fri Aug 23 12:34:43 CDT 1996 Message number: 42 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Starfire : DD> worked for change. One example: I am eternally grateful to feminists DD> for setting me free. St> I personally don't think that the goal of equality is anywhere near St> reached. No, but it's certainly better than it was a hundred years ago. Back then, a woman couldn't even speak about equal rights without some trepidation. Today women can do more then talk about a career, politics or personal volition - they can actively pursue it. Though there are definately some glass ceilings in place, it's immesurably better than it was before feminism made its mark. ... Be suspicious of all native-born Esperanto speakers. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DARING DIANE J. To: All Subject: Oppose NSP merger Date: Fri Nov 01 17:20:57 CST 1996 Message number: 43 Reply to message number: unavailable ACTION ALERT ! Public Hearing On The Proposed Mega-Utility Primergy: Should The Minnesota Public Utilities Commission Authorize the Merger of Northern States Power Company and Wisconsin Energy Corporation? Where: Hennepin County Government Center When: Friday, November 15 1:00 p.m. Please attend and testify at a hearing by the Minnesota Public Utilities Commission to decide whether or not to approve a merger of NSP and Wisconsin Energy Corp. Your testimony at this public hearing will be of enormous value to SEED [a program of Minnesotans For an Energy Efficient Econo- my] in promoting our sustainable energy goals for Minnesota. All of your comments will be included in the record for the Public Utilities Commission, the body that must approve or deny this merger. Environmental groups in Minnesota and Wisconsin have raised a number of important environmental concerns about this merger. Fundamentally, this merger is about Minnesota's energy future, and what Minnesota's consumers and the environment stand to lose if NSP, Minnesota's largest utility becomes Primergy the largest utility in the midwest. So far, NSP has been successful in limiting the merger questions to a few narrow issues, like whether a one/two percent rate break is a good deal, and whether the merger hurts other utility compa- nies. But before it's approved, the Minnesota Public Utility Commission will have to decide if the merger is truly in the public interest. We need you to come speak and raise the REAL questions that citizens want answered: Here are some talking points that you can raise. 1) Sustainable Energy. Will renewable energy grow or shrink as a percent of total sales? Will Primergy's power in the market be used to stifle new renewable producers? To prevent that, Primergy should be required to buy as much renewable energy (as a percent of sales) as NSP is now required to buy. 2) Stopping Increased Pollution. Coal-fired power plants are among the largest sources of air and water pollution. The merger will result in more pollution in Minnesota as the dirtiest, coal- fired power plants are used to sell electricity in new out-of- state markets. Should this pollution be allowed to increase as Primergy sales increase? One solutions is to impose a "cap" on the total pollution from NSP's system and require that old, dirty coal plants meet the same performance standards as new plants. NSP can also reduce emissions by switching to cleaner fuels, adding pollution controls, or retiring the oldest units. Other options for Primergy to increase sales without increasing pollution are energy conservation investments and additional renewable energy sources. By placing a system-wide cap on pollutants, the PUC could assure that air pollution does not rise as a result of the merger. With an emissions cap, instead of increasing environmental costs, this merger could yield a substantial environmental improvement. 3) Mercury Pollution. One pollutant of particular importance in Minnesota is mercury. High levels of mercury in sport fish have caused the State to issue health advisories about fish consumption from most Minnesota lakes. Wildlife that eat fish are also affected. The proposed Primergy company would control a large portion of the region's mercury-emitting power plants. We're pleased to see that the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources is calling on the Wisconsin regulators to require that Primergy pay for mercury reduction strategies throughout the region, as a condition of the merger. Minnesotans should expect no less, considering that so much of our economy is based on fishing and tourism, and because so many families depend heavily on fish in their diets. 4) Energy Efficiency. NSP is proposing to cut its energy conservation budget by more than two-thirds in order to get ready for this merger and the coming competition in the electric industry. These drastic cuts would damage energy efficiency programs that assist NSP's low-income customers, as well as popular programs that help businesses and other households become more efficient. 5) Minnesota Loses Regulatory Control. The way NSP has proposed its merger shifts much of Minnesota's regulatory authority to the federal government. Do Minnesotans want control of their utility shifted to Washington D.C.? If not, Speak Out! The environmental costs to Minnesota from increased operations of coal plants must be taken into account to determine the net savings from the merger, if any. If it approves the merger, the Minnesota Public Utilities Commission must protect MinnesotaOs environment, or this merger is not in the public interest. Prepared by Michael Noble Director of Minnesotans For an Energy Efficient Economy (ME3) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: ACLU11-8-96---1 Date: Wed Nov 20 18:35:46 CST 1996 Message number: 44 Reply to message number: unavailable 11/8/96 ACLU Newsfeed -- ACLU News Direct to YOU _________________________________________ TODAYS NEWS * ACLU Files Federal Lawsuit to Block Implementation of California's Anti- Affirmative Action Initiative * Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Rules NEA Decency Requirement Unconstitutional * Mickey Mouse Laws in the Magic Kingdom ACLU Files Federal Lawsuit to Block Implementation of California's Anti-Affirmative Action Initiative FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Wednesday, November 6, 1996 SAN FRANCISCO -- The ACLU affiliates in Northern and Southern California -- working with the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights, the Employment Law Center and a coalition of civil rights organizations -- filed a lawsuit in federal district court in San Francisco this morning to block implementation of Proposition 209. Plaintiffs, which include a broad spectrum of business, education and civil rights groups and individuals, charge that the anti-affirmative action initiative, approved yesterday by California voters, violates the 14th Amendment and the Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution. "No statewide measure in American history has ever come close in scope or effect to Proposition 209's chokehold on state and local government," said Mark Rosenbaum, legal director of the ACLU of Southern California. "The measure treats the unfinished business of rooting out discrimination as if it were none of the government's," Rosenbaum said. "While the measure is breathtaking in its sweep, there is nothing new in its methodology which disenfranchises minorities and women from reliable and effective participation in our political process." Plaintiffs argue that Proposition 209 violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution because it would block legislation needed to protect minorities and women from discrimination. "While other groups," the court documents said, "may continue to pursue their interests in attaining preferential legislation and policies at every level of state and local government ... racial minorities, under Proposition 209, may now only do so by securing a popular majority and amending the state constitution." "The anti-affirmative action law," said Ted Wang of the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights, "would prevent governments from eliminating ongoing, identified discrimination." Alluding to Prop. 209's text of 37 words, attorney Judith Kurtz of Equal Rights Advocates said, "With just over 35 words, Proposition 209 would negate 35 years of progress." "This law turns back the clock on women's advancement," said Kathy Rodgers, executive director of the NOW Legal Defense and Education Fund. "Without affirmative action, women will once again lose critical opportunities for economic equality." Plaintiffs contend the initiative violates the Equal Protection clause by barring women and minorities from seeking protective race- or gender-conscious legislation when other groups are permitted to seek whatever preferential treatment they please. Further, plaintiff attorneys claim that Proposition 209 prevents state and local governments from meeting their constitutionally mandated duty to remedy discrimination against women and racial minorities. "Proposition 209 would not only prevent states from adopting affirmative action programs designed to serve compelling interests, it would prevent them from fulfilling their constitutional duty under the Equal Protection Clause to redress past discrimination against minorities," court documents argue. "This mean-spirited initiative artificially limits the ability of public agencies to address the continuing issues of racism and sexism that abound in this country," said Bill McNeil of the Employment Law Center. Plaintiffs charge that the measure violates the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution by outlawing the very state and local programs established to ensure compliance with federal laws such as Title VI and VII of the federal Civil Rights Act of 1964 and Title IX of the Educational Amendments of 1972. The Supremacy Clause forbids states from obstructing federal law. "Proposition 209 undermines enforcement of federal civil rights laws which depend upon voluntary compliance by government agencies, compliance which often requires affirmative action to undo the effects of prior discrimination," said Ed Chen, attorney with the ACLU of Northern California. "By outlawing all public affirmative action programs, the measure interferes with governmental efforts to comply voluntarily with federal civil rights laws." Court documents identify programs threatened by Proposition 209, including: -- The K-12 grade MESA (Math, Science & Engineering) Program--and state university and local college equivalents for minority students -- State and municipal contracting programs to eliminate discrimination and increase participation by minorities and women -- Financial aid, tutoring and outreach programs at public colleges, universities and graduate schools for minorities and women -- The Ten School Programs, for low-performing, primarily African-American schools which promotes parental involvement and improve school resources. -- Police and fire department programs to remedy past discrimination against women and minorities and ensure that departments reflect the communities they serve -- Voluntary school desegregation programs by school districts which consider race, ethnicity and gender in magnet school or college preparatory admissions With their lawsuit, Coalition for Economic Equity vs Wilson, plaintiffs have submitted more than 75 declarations from prominent historians, business and civil rights leaders, academicians, economists, parents and students including: the nation's leading African American historian, Dr. John Hope Franklin; Mary Frances Berry, Chair U.S. Commission on Civil Rights; Judith Rosener, Professor of Management, U.C. Irvine; Don Nakanishi, Director of Asian American Studies UCLA; Charles Young, Chancellor, UCLA; Ricardo Romo, Vice Provost, University of Texas; Michael Drake, UCSF School of Medicine; and Nobel Prize winner and former UC Berkeley Chancellor Glenn T. Seaborg. These declarations testify to the continuing vitality of affirmative action and the grave injury that would result from ending it. Abby Leibman, executive director of the California Women's Law Center said, "This unconstitutional initiative must be challenged, or women and girls will find themselves back in the 1950s instead of ready to enter the 21st Century." Attorney Julie Su of the Asian Pacific-American Legal Center said, "Asian Americans should not be used as a racial mascot by angry white males intent on destroying the principle of equal opportunity for all. This unwise initiative is divisive and would hurt California." UCLA Law School Professor Evan Caminker said, "The Supreme Court has invalidated earlier voter initiatives that blocked minority groups from seeking favorable legislation as a subtle yet serious form of race discrimination. Based on these cases, Proposition 209 should also be held unconstitutional." "Proposition 209 has only one purpose: to reverse gains made by women and persons of color during the past 30 years," said Professor Karl Manheim of Loyola Law School. "It embodies the very sort of invidious race and sex discrimination that the Equal Protection Clause was designed to prevent and is therefore unconstitutional." U.C. Davis Law School Professor Vikram Amar said, "Proposition 209 runs afoul of the equal protection principles affirmed by the Supreme Court which is the law of the land." Professor Erwin Chemerinsky of U.S.C. Law School said, "Proposition 209 eliminates programs that exist to help African-Americans, Latinos, Asians and women. Thus, it is clearly discriminatory in its present and future impact and a denial of equal protection." Plaintiffs include 11 individuals and 12 organizations representing labor, education, women's business groups, and minority organizations including the California Federation of Labor/AFL-CIO; California N.A.A.C.P. and the lead plaintiff organization, Coalition for Economic Equity. The Coalition comprises business and contracting organizations such as African-American Agenda Council, the African-American Contractors of San Francisco, the Asian-Indian Association of American and the San Francisco Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. Joining the ACLU's affiliates in Northern and Southern California are the Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights of the San Francisco Bay Area, the Employment Law Center, the N.O.W. Legal Defense & Education Fund, Equal Rights Advocates, the California Women's Law Center, the Asian Pacific-American Legal Center, Professor Karl Manheim of Loyola Law School, Professor Vikram Amar of the University of California Davis Law School, and Professor Evan Caminker of UCLA Law School. More information is available at the ACLU of Southern California's web site at <> ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: aclu---2 Date: Wed Nov 20 18:35:47 CST 1996 Message number: 45 Reply to message number: unavailable _________________________________________ Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals Rules NEA Decency Requirement Unconstitutional FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Tuesday, Nov. 5, 1996 SAN FRANCISCO -- Acting in a longstanding, nationally significant dispute over artists free speech, the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals today declared unconstitutional a statute requiring the National Endowment for the Arts to take into account "general standards of decency" in making grant decisions. The matter has long been known in arts circles as the "NEA 4 case." The ruling was the latest action in a lawsuit that grew out of a 1990 statute in which Congress attempted to impose content restrictions on the beleaguered federal arts agency. A U.S. District Court judge in Los Angeles voided the requirement in 1990, but the matter was appealed by the Clinton Administration. Nearly five years ago, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals heard oral arguments in the case. The decision was announced today. The suit was brought by four performance artists -- Karen Finley, Tim Miller, John Fleck and Hollie Hughes -- along with the national Assn. of Artists Organizations (NAAO). The artists were represented by a legal team including David Cole, professor at Georgetown University Law Center and volunteer attorney with the Center for Constitutional Rights; Carol Sobel, senior staff counsel of the ACLU of Southern California; Marjorie Heins, staff attorney with the ACLU national office in New York; Mary Dorman, of the National Campaign for Freedom of Expression, and Ellen Yaroshesky, professor at Cardozo Law School. "This decision means that, from now on, the NEA must concern itself with art, not politics or decency," Cole said. "Just as public universities may not control the content of professors and students speech on political or decency grounds, so the NEA may not regulate artists speech on those grounds." "Although this case involves a statute that is no longer in effect, this ruling is very significant in todays climate of increased risks for free expression across the United States," said Ramona Ripston, executive director of the ACLU of Southern California. "There are too many voices that continue to advocate for crippling the ability of artists to speak freely and too many members of Congress who remain willing to try to pass clearly unconstitutional statutes to strip away fundamental guarantees of free expression in the arts," Ripston added. "This ruling is valuable law in 1996," she concluded, "and it serves both the NEA and the cause of free expression rights for artists as well today as it did more than five years ago when these artists were first denied grants. It is a good ruling and an important one." To read the Ninth Circuit's decision go to <> _________________________________________ ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: aclu---3 Date: Wed Nov 20 18:35:48 CST 1996 Message number: 46 Reply to message number: unavailable _________________________________________ Mickey Mouse Laws in the Magic Kingdom ANAHEIM, CA -- Retired police officer Marilyn Dortch still seethes when she recalls her confrontation with Disneyland security. Her 17-year-old daughter Erin Lewellen was detained by security officers, Dortch told the Orange County Register, because she forgot to check in her uniform after leaving her job at the Carnation ice cream shop. Park security and a Disneyland supervisor questioned the girl for two hours, Dortch said, refusing to let her call her mother. Dortch later lambasted security officers for violating her daughter's constitutional rights. "There is no Constitution at Disneyland," Dortch said the security supervisor told her. "We have our own laws." Disneyland contends that Lewellen was stealing her uniform, and the facts surrounding the case are in dispute. But the alleged statement by Disneyland security turns out to be accurate, legal experts said. When you step inside of the gates of the Magic Kingdom, or any private business, you surrender significant legal protections. And some say that is cause for concern. During the past month, the Orange County Register interviewed more than 30 people who reported what they thought was abuse at the hands of Disneyland security. Seven people filed lawsuits in the past two months, alleging they were wrongfully arrested and imprisoned. Those who questioned security's tactics were interviewed separately, but told stories with common threads: - Many said they were held for up to four hours in a small room, with no access to a bathroom, telephone or water. - Parents said security questioned their children without calling parents first, and sometimes told adolescents they must confess or be send to jail. - In three cases, parents alleged that security offered not to seek prosecution of preadolescents if they parents paid $275 in civil damages. - Eleven people in five separate cases said they were shoved, hit, dragged or otherwise assaulted by guards. "They (Disneyland security) tend to be very heavy-handed," said Dean Allen, an Orange County deputy public defender who supervises the agency's cases involving suspects younger than 18. Disneyland spokesman Tom Brocato disputed claims that Disneyland security hold people for hours. "We're not a police force. We don't claim to be," he said. State law allows merchants to hold shoplifting suspects as long as is "reasonably necessary" for questioning. Appellate courts have ruled that during a long interrogation, police officers must allow those detained time to rest, use the bathroom, eat and drink. If they fail to do so, a confession can be thrown out. The law also allows security to use "reasonable" force to detain someone, or when security officers' lives are in danger, said Mark Kappelhoff, legislative counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union in Washington. Brocato said Disneyland's policy is to avoid using any kind of physical force, but he added that "limited and reasonable" restraint is used when someone is combative. Several people interviewed, however, said that Disney security used excessive force. Costa Mesa resident Michelle Singer claims guards struck, pushed, tripped and dragged her 16-year-old daughter Nicole Roberts, along with two other teen-agers. Security confronted the girl, Singer said, because her friend had knocked over an orange cone in the parking lot. John Castro, 40, of Santa Ana, said he was shoved by a guard during a disagreement over whether a child was young enough to get in free. He was not arrested, and no report was taken on the incident, he said. Many of those interviewed by the Register said they did not know what their rights were and what authority security had. Such scenarios reveal a gap in the law, said the ACLU's Mark Kappelhoff. The law treats Disneyland like a private citizen, but the park has the resources to act like a police department. "It's a gray area," Kappelhoff said. "It's something we definitely need to look into." ________________________________________ ONLINE RESOURCES FROM THE ACLU NATIONAL OFFICE ________________________________________ ACLU Freedom Network Web Page: http://www.aclu.org. America Online users should check out our live chats, auditorium events, *very* active message boards, and complete news on civil liberties, at keyword ACLU. ________________________________________ ACLU Newsfeed American Civil Liberties Union National Office 132 West 43rd Street New York, New York 10036 To subscribe to the ACLU Newsfeed, send a message to majordomo@aclu.org with "subscribe News" in the body of the message. To terminate your subscription, send a message to majordomo@aclu.org with "unsubscribe News" in the body of the message. For general information about the ACLU, write to info@aclu.org. ________________________________________ This message was sent to the news ... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Sandman Subject: Re: ACLU11-8-96---1 Date: Thu Nov 21 04:03:48 CST 1996 Message number: 47 Reply to message number: 44 S> Plaintiffs, which include a broad spectrum of business, education and civil S> rights groups and individuals, charge that the anti-affirmative action S> initiative, approved yesterday by California voters, violates the 14th S> Amendment and the Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution. S> S> "While other groups," the court documents said, "may continue to pursue thei S> interests in attaining preferential legislation and policies at every level S> of state and local government ... racial minorities, under Proposition 209, S> may now only do so by securing a popular majority and amending the state S> constitution." S> Interesting. The plot thickens. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Sandman Subject: Re: aclu---3 Date: Thu Nov 21 04:06:03 CST 1996 Message number: 48 Reply to message number: 46 S> - Eleven people in five separate cases said they were shoved, hit, dragged o S> otherwise assaulted by guards. S> S> "We're not a police force. We don't claim to be," he said. S> Of course not. Only *real* police are allowed to do that. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: All Subject: Must-read books Date: Mon Dec 09 01:52:16 CST 1996 Message number: 49 Reply to message number: unavailable Teebo had asked about books, and which one are recommended ... so I thought I'd pass this piece along. I didn't write the list, but have read a good chunk of the books on the list. [note: " is the same as a " sign] http://www.scruznet.com/~kangaroo STEVE'S ULTIMATE READING LIST FOR LIBERALS Out of the hundreds of political science books filling my home library, the following ones are ones I consider classics. Virtually all of them are written in plain English by authors who are the among the top experts in their fields. Read these, and I guarantee you a superb command of the latest and best liberal arguments against conservatives. ECONOMICS Peddling Prosperity by Paul Krugman (New York: W.W. Norton & Company, 1994). What Stephen Hawking did for physics with A Brief History of Time, Krugman does for economics with this readable primer for the rest of us. Krugman is one of the top economists in the world, whose findings on free trade are almost certain to win him the Nobel prize. This Stanford professor has already won the John Bates Clark Medal -- which is even more difficult to win than the esteemed Nobel. If you read no other book in the world (on any liberal topic!), be sure to read this one. Politics of Rich and Poor by Kevin Phillips (New York: Random House, 1990). This is the famous book that kicked off the "rich are getting richer, and the poor poorer" debate of the 80s. Once ridiculed by conservatives as "class warfare," this book's thesis of polarizing wealth in America is now accepted by all serious economists of all political stripes. Boiling Point by Kevin Phillips (New York: HarperCollins, 1993). Here, Phillips continues to explore the effects of income inequality on the middle class, and the voter anger and revolt that is growing in the 90s. Phillips is a scholar of the first order, a Republican respected on both sides of the debate. America: What Went Wrong? by Donald Barlett and James Steele (Kansas City: Andrews and McMeel, 1992). These two Pulitzer-prize winning journalists describe how the game of wealth in America is rigged for the rich. They show how corporations use tax cuts, deregulation and government for their own ends, leaving the middle class holding the bill. America: Who Really Pays the Taxes? by Donald Barlett and James Steele (New York: Touchstone, 1994). This is a terrific resource for explaining exactly how the rich manipulate the tax code and Congress to shift the tax burden onto the middle class. Although filled with a lot of numbers that do not make for quick and easy reading, it is useful for debunking any conservative numbers argument that you may run into. CRIME The Rich Get Richer and the Poor Get Prison by Jeffrey Reiman (New York: Macmillan Publishing Company, 1990). A masterpiece. Reiman, a renowned criminologist, shows how the U.S. justice system selectively punishes the crimes of the poor while ignoring the crimes of the rich. For example, in 1987, theft and robbery cost Americans $12 billion, but white collar fraud and embezzlement cost $107 billion. Some 19,000 Americans were officially murdered that year, but countless hundreds of thousands were killed by pollution, tobacco, unnecessary surgery, food additives, overprescription of legal drugs, unsafe consumer products, job hazards and other things which are foisted on us by overly profit-driven corporations. Even when the rich get caught for more "traditional" crimes, they get off much more lightly than the poor. ENVIRONMENT Earth in the Balance by Vice President Al Gore, Jr. (New York: Penguin Books, 1993). An excellent introduction to environmentalism that covers all the hot topics: overpopulation, global warming, ozone destruction, toxic waste, endangered species and more. If Gore is the true author of this book (that is, no ghostwriters), then his scientific education is truly extraordinary. Alas, in the credits, he acknowledges receiving much help from the scientific community. Vital Signs 1995 by the World Watch Institute (New York: W.W. Norton & Company, 1995). This is a yearly update on global conditions and environmental trends. Hard statistics on every environmental problem you can think of. FAMILY The Way We Never Were by Stephanie Coontz (New York: HarperCollins, 1992). This fact-crammed book explodes just about every myth of the American family out there. She shows that the average 50s family did not resemble June and Ward Cleaver; that the American family has never been as self-reliant as it likes to think; and that poverty is the basic cause for the disintegration of lower-class families. This book is the definitive liberal rejoinder to critics of welfare and single motherhood. FEMINISM (Note: there is no single "feminist" viewpoint, and the following books sometimes vehemently disagree with each other. Nonetheless, these are the most famous works of the last decade, and should serve as the starting point for any debate.) Backlash by Susan Faludi (New York: Doubleday, 1991). Probably the most important feminist books of the last 20 years, Faludi documents how women's growing equality has resulted in a backlash, ranging from politics to business to the media. She debunks so-called "statistics" that show that a single middle-aged woman has greater chances of getting killed by a terrorist than getting married. The Beauty Myth by Naomi Wolf (New York: Doubleday, 1991). This bestseller demonstrates how standards of beauty keep women subjugated, alienating themselves from their bodies and their sexuality, and causing themselves considerable physical harm in trying to attain unreasonable levels of perfection. Fire With Fire by Naomi Wolf (New York: Fawcett Columbine, 1994). Wolf makes the transition from radical to moderate feminist in this book, arguing that feminism is failing because of its victim mentality. Noting the considerable victories that women have already won, she advocates that women embrace their newfound power, rather than perpetuate the stereotype of woman-as-victim. This book started a national debate within the feminist movement. Who Stole Feminism? By Christina Hoff Sommers (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1994). Although Hoff Sommers is a liberal feminist who believes in the equal rights of women, she has come under attack for this book, which argues that the feminist movement has gone too far. Feminists leaders who claim that "all sex is rape" or describe modern physics as "Newton's rape manual" have only hurt the cause of women by turning off mainstream Americans. She advocates returning feminism to a more moderate philosophy of sexual equality. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: All Subject: Must-read books II Date: Mon Dec 09 01:53:11 CST 1996 Message number: 50 Reply to message number: unavailable GUNS Guns and the Constitution by Dennis Hennigan, E. Bruce Nicholson and David Hemenway (Northampton, Mass.: Aletheia Press, 1995). It's astonishing that such a short book (76 pages) can destroy an entire school of thought. This book shows how the gun lobby completely misinterprets the Second Amendment, which, according to the Supreme Court, does not protect an individual's right to own a gun. It also contains a brilliant chapter that makes the liberal case for gun control, using all the latest statistics and studies. Especially valuable is its deconstruction of the crank scholarship of pro-gun criminologist Gary Kleck. HEALTH CARE Your Money or Your Life by Marc Roberts (New York: Doubleday, 1993) The problem with most books on health care reform is that they are written by highly partisan sources -- doctors who want to preserve their salaries, insurance companies who want to preserve their profits, patients who want to increase their services, etc. Roberts gives an exceptionally fair and even-handed analysis of the health care crisis -- a complicated subject he manages to explain clearly in 161 pages. LOBBYISTS Money Talks by Dan Clawson, Alan Neustadtl and Denise Scott (New York: HarperCollins, 1992). An eye-opening analysis of how corporate political action committees really work. Liberals will be dismayed to learn just how easily Democrats as well as Republicans have sold out to rich corporations, killing democracy in the process. The researchers not only investigated 309 corporate PACs, but extensively interviewed 38 of them under conditions of anonymity. What was said during these interviews will have you calling for instant reform. MEDIA The Media Monopoly by Ben Bagdikian (Boston: Beacon Press, 1992 [1983]). Easily the most famous book among media scholars in the last 23 years. Ridiculed as "alarmist" when it first came out, it is today praised as a masterpiece for the unerring accuracy of its predictions. Bagdikian, "the dean of American journalism," warned that deregulation of the media under Reagan's FCC was leading to corporate ownership and monopolization of the media. These parent corporations are conservative and highly active in lobbying Washington, despite the media's reputation for being "liberal." Since 1983, the number of corporations controlling media have shrunk from 50 to 20, with no sign of stopping. Once the media monopoly is complete, information in this country will be centralized and we will have effectively abandoned a free press. Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting (various publications). FAIR is dedicated to combating corporate monopolization of the media, and exposes the often heavy corporate and conservative bias in mainstream news reporting. POLITICAL SCIENCE The Power Game by Hedrick Smith (New York: Ballantine Books, 1988). "How Washington Works" is the subtitle of this book, and no one describes it better than veteran journalist Hedrick Smith. Reviewing Washington's evolution from Kennedy to Reagan, Smith not only provides a detailed history of how we got into this mess, but a brilliant analysis of what makes Washington tick. One of his shrewder observations: the perception of power is just as effective as power itself. They Only Look Dead by E.J. Dionne, Jr. (New York: Simon & Schuster, 1996). Another of America's best journalists, Dionne describes why the 1994 Republican takeover of Congress stemmed from the self-destruction of Democrats, not the conversion of America to conservatism. He shows the political forces that killed the Gingrich Revolution, and why progressives will return to power. Written before the Republicans' 1995 budget disaster and Clinton's resurgence in the polls, this book turned out to be highly prophetic. Pathologies of Rational Choice Theory by Donald Green and Ian Shapiro (New Haven: Yale University Press, 1994). This is a more advanced book, but it is useful for rebutting a theory that many conservatives and libertarians heavily depend upon: rational choice theory (sometimes called public choice theory). This theory attempts to describe how voters make choices, based on many (conservative) economic principles. The authors show that rational choice theory explains nothing and is in need of a replacement. RACE Two Nations: Black and White, Separate, Hostile, Unequal by Andrew Hacker (New York: Ballantine Books, 1992). A classic exploration of all aspects of race in the United States, from racism to affirmative action to segregation. Hacker's strength is that he uses statistics to demolish stereotypes and prove the racism lurking behind many supposedly "color-blind" policies. The Bell Curve Wars by various authors (New York: HarperCollins, 1995). The Bell Curve argued that the average black IQ is 15 points lower than the average white IQ, and that this had policy implications for welfare and affirmative action. Shortly afterwards, the National Academy of Sciences branded the book's science as "fraudulent." This book explains why. Inequality by Design by Claude Fischer and others (Princeton: Princeton University Press, 1996). The definitive refutation to The Bell Curve, this book re-examines all the data that Murray and Herrnstein used, corrects all the statistical errors, and comes to the opposite conclusion: inequality is more affected by social factors than genetic ones. An excellent introduction to the subject of why poverty is a major reason for our social problems. RUSH LIMBAUGH The Way Things Aren't by Fairness and Accuracy In Reporting (FAIR) (New York: The New Press, 1995). Forget the current best-seller Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot, written by a non-scholar whose insults are as infantile as his target's. This is the real rejoinder to the conservative's leading spokesman. FAIR absolutely destroys Rush Limbaugh by refuting "over 100 outrageously false and foolish statements from America's most powerful radio and TV commentator." REFERENCE SOURCES: The American Almanac: Statistical Abstract of the United States. Unfortunately, the Internet still can't beat this hefty volume as the best one-stop source for any statistical need. It's one of my most heavily used books. And The American Almanac uses primary sources that stand authoritative in any debate. Who We Are by Sam Roberts (New York: Random House, 1994). Clear and easy to understand, this book reviews the results of the 1990 Census and paints a portrait of American life. It describes our standard of living, income inequality, racial composites, education levels, national trends and more. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: Must-read books Date: Mon Dec 09 13:14:16 CST 1996 Message number: 51 Reply to message number: 49 DR> Peddling Prosperity by Paul Krugman (New York: DR> W.W. Norton & Company, 1994). What Stephen Hawking did for A good book, worth reading ... it's pretty easy to get through, too. The guy does have a problem with coming up with ideas, though - he's just good at debunking crappy economic arguemnts. He has a column in Slate, too, worth checking out ... http://www.slate.com DR> Politics of Rich and Poor by Kevin Phillips (New DR> York: Random House, 1990). This is the famous book that kicked Good book, but repetittive. The same could be said in a few chapters, but he takes a whole book to do it in. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: All Subject: Message from the hemp guy Date: Wed Jan 15 10:45:08 CST 1997 Message number: 52 Reply to message number: unavailable From coffee@visi.com Tue Jan 14 10:31:47 1997 Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 09:44:59 -0500 From: John Birrenbach To: MN_Politics Subject: PAP = Political Action Page *** P.A.P **** Political Action Page - http://www.visi.com/~coffee/PAP/ I decided to make a Web page that access information to empower people into political action. on the page you will find: links to Government Information - State, Local, Federal Links Email Directories - Probably the best part of the pages, send email to members of the Minnesota and US legislatures. Even a tool that lets you send messages to all at once. Drop in check it out, if you think I need to add something or if you love (or hate ) the idea drop me a note. Thanks John Birrenbach PAP = Political Action Page http://www.visi.com/~coffee/PAP/ information you can use to tell your representitives how you feel. Links to government information, email directories, and lots more. If you are a political junkie then check this site!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: All Subject: Hemp News II Date: Fri Jan 17 07:10:16 CST 1997 Message number: 53 Reply to message number: unavailable From coffee@visi.com Fri Jan 17 13:09:17 1997 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:56:13 -0500 From: John Birrenbach To: "Schimek, Erik " Subject: George Coming Two legal marijuana patients & a doctor are coming to Minnesota to meet with Patients, Doctors and Legislators. On Monday January 20th 1997 George McMahon, Barb Douglass, and Dr. David Busch will be in St Paul. The purpose of his visit is to meet with Patients, doctors and members of the Minnesota Legislature about the need for and use of medical marijuana. Included in the discussion will be Props 215 & 200 in California and Arizona respectively. George, Barb, and Dr Busch will be giving three one hour seminars at the Kelly Inn in St. Paul. The Seminars will be given from 4-5pm, 6-7pm, 8-9pm at the Kelly Inn room #220 If you would like to attend please reply to this message or simply show up. George, Barb and Dr Busch are extremely interested in meeting with members of the legislature who are interested in introducing or supporting the introduction of a medical marijuana bill this session. I sincerely hope that you will take the time to attend this informative seminar. For information about George on the World Wide Web check this web site: Patients Out of Time http://www.trvnet.net/~mmcmahon/ Thank you for your time and consideration. Sincerely John Birrenbach MN Resident ::::::::::: SHAMLESS SIGGY FOLLOWS ::::::::: These are some of the Web Pages I have created for a full list hit my home page. *****NEW****************NEW***************** PAP = Political Action Page - Links to political stuff, reach your fearles leaders by email and more. http://www.visi.com/~coffee/PAP/ ******************************************** EXECUTIVE COFFEE & TEA - Two locations Town Square and First Trust Center. On the Web at: http://www.visi.com/~coffee/ ******************************************** JOHN BIRRENBACH - Web Page Designer/Internet Consultant 2 of my sites were picked by the St Paul Pioneer Press as "Area Bests". http://www.visi.com/~coffee/MASTER/ ******************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DARING DIANE J. To: All Subject: Nuclear Waste Threat Date: Sun Jan 26 12:21:45 CST 1997 Message number: 54 Reply to message number: unavailable On Wednesday, January 22, a railroad car carring a container of radioactive scrap metal from the Monticello nuclear power plant crashed into the Washington Avenue bridge and damaged the container, exposing the stuff to our environment. I found out about it this evening from an "incident report" which the Nuclear Regulatory Commission filled out and which a listserver called "Nukenet" posts to those of us watching the nuclear power monopolies as these insesnsitive capitalists destroy our environment. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission claims no radioactive damage was done, but how can I trust them when they filled out the report inaccurately? The report says this "incident" happened in the city of Minneapolis in Ramsey County, Minnnesota. I e-mailed the text of the report to Froggy. Perhaps I could coax her through this posting to give us Dissenter her comments on this. I am so furious--as an emotional female--that I cannot say much more intelligent about this now. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Daring Diane J. Subject: Re: Nuclear Waste Threat Date: Mon Jan 27 00:27:37 CST 1997 Message number: 55 Reply to message number: 54 DD> On Wednesday, January 22, a railroad car carring a container of radioactive DD> scrap metal from the Monticello nuclear power plant crashed into the DD> Washington Avenue bridge and damaged the container, exposing the stuff to o I have another question. What the hell is radioactive scrap metal? How does the Monticello plant produce any contaminated material other than spent fuel rods? Also, where were they taking this stuff and why? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DARING DIANE J. To: Froggy Subject: Re: Nuclear Waste Threat Date: Wed Jan 29 07:06:23 CST 1997 Message number: 56 Reply to message number: 55 To answer Froggy's question, I have a vague understanding that when parts from a nuke plant wear out, they are sent off somewhere, and the part that was being sent is the "rotor" on the train car which crashed into the Wshington Avenue Bridge. If anyone will consult their Strib and Pioneer Press from Friday, Jan. 24, they will see that the tiny news stories say that NSP refused to reveal where the rotor was being shipped. I guess they don't want us consumers to get smart about where contaminated metal is going so that we do not boycott the place which recycled radioactive metal into consumer goods we will buy. I e-mailed the man who generates the notices about nuke accidents in the U.S. He e-mailed back to me that he has no further information about the train crash in Minneapolis, but he sent me scads of other NRC reports where such things happen as radioactive material from nuke plants get stolen off trains and no one but the thieves know how it happened or where it is. Does anybody believe the nuclear power industry when they tell us that generating electricity by nuclear means is safe and there is nothing to worry about? How do people arrive at such a belief? I'd be interested to hear. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DARING DIANE J. To: All Subject: Anti-nuke Rally Date: Wed Jan 29 07:10:08 CST 1997 Message number: 57 Reply to message number: unavailable Anyone want to support the Prairie Island Tribe and the anti-nuclear power cause? There is a demonstration at the Capitol in St. Paul on Tuesday, February 25, at noon. We hope folks will lobby their legislators for a just settlement to the tribe's plight and more citizen control of nuclear waste. Let me know if you are interested. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Daring Diane J. Subject: Re: Anti-nuke Rally Date: Wed Jan 29 09:32:29 CST 1997 Message number: 58 Reply to message number: 57 DD> Anyone want to support the Prairie Island Tribe and the anti-nuclear power DD> cause? There is a demonstration at the Capitol in St. Paul on Tuesday, DD> February 25, at noon. We hope folks will lobby their legislators for a Could I ask you to post it again closer to the rally date? I will forget it, otherwise. In the meantime, I will call Janet and see if any others are going down there from this area. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: DARING DIANE J. Subject: Re: Nuclear Waste Threat Date: Wed Jan 29 12:37:17 CST 1997 Message number: 59 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Daring Diane J. : DDJ> Does anybody believe the nuclear power industry when they tell us that DDJ> generating electricity by nuclear means is safe and there is nothing DDJ> to worry about? How do people arrive at such a belief? I'd be DDJ> interested to hear. That's the biggest problem, of course: we can't trust what NSP says, as they have a demonstrated pattern of dishonesty. I might be able to buy the idea that running the 2 nuclear plants until we have other energy sources online is the best bet, might even be able to believe that the proposed merger makes sense for both NSP and the consumer ... but I can't believe it when NSP can't seen to get their facts straight. (Nor are they alone in this, Carl Pohlad and the Twins are pulling a similar stunt). ... Yield to temptation; It may not pass your way again. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: DARING DIANE J. Subject: Re: Anti-nuke Rally Date: Wed Jan 29 12:37:18 CST 1997 Message number: 60 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Daring Diane J. : DDJ> Anyone want to support the Prairie Island Tribe and the anti-nuclear DDJ> power cause? There is a demonstration at the Capitol in St. Paul on DDJ> Tuesday, February 25, at noon. We hope folks will lobby their DDJ> legislators for a just settlement to the tribe's plight and more DDJ> citizen control of nuclear waste. Let me know if you are interested. Got class then, but I would be interested in seeing the House meet when they go over their DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act) legislation. Anyone know when that's set to be heard in the Civil/Family Law Division committee hearing? ... Be suspicious of all native-born Esperanto speakers. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVE THE LUCKY To: Froggy Subject: Re: Nuclear Waste Threat Date: Wed Jan 29 15:39:44 CST 1997 Message number: 61 Reply to message number: 55 F> I have another question. What the hell is radioactive scrap metal? Having once been a proud member of the Flying Neutron Club (otherwise known as a Naval Nuclear Propulsion Systems Flunkie-in-Training), I believe I can answer your question. In a fission reactor (which every nuclear reactor now operating is), energy is created when heavy atoms are bombarded with neutrons, causing some neutrons to be absorbed, leading to unstable heavy nuclei, which split (or "fission") into smaller nuclei. Most of these smaller nuclei (also called "daughter isotopes", see how female-friendly the nuclear industry is?) are also unstable, and release additional material from their nuclei until they become stable. These released nuclei and particles comprise a good deal of "radiation", but are not particularly harmful to humans, since they are too heavy to penetrate much matter (particulate radiation cannot penetrate a light layer of clothing, for example). However, not all the neutrons released for fissioning are absorbed by fuel nuclei. Some are absorbed by other atoms in other, nearby materials, such as small pieces of corroded metal which flake off the high-pressure reactor piping. Just as with the fuel nuclei, these nuclei become unstable when they absorb neutrons, but unlike fuel nuclei, they don't immediately collapse into daughter products. This is where "half-life" comes in: the half-life of a radioactive material is the time required for one-half of the atoms in that material to degenerate into daughter products, which themselves might or might not be radioactive. (The problem with radon gas, for example, is not that radon is itself radioactive, though it is, but that it can degenerate into daughter products in your lungs; the daughter products are not gases, but solids, and they get stuck there, irradiating you forevermore.) Eventually, almost everything in a nuclear reactor chamber becomes irradiated by the neutron flux--nuts and bolts, pump bushings, etc. This is where you get your "radioactive scrap metal". This has been a service of the Flying Neutron Brigade. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVE THE LUCKY To: Daring Diane J. Subject: Re: Nuclear Waste Threat Date: Wed Jan 29 15:41:36 CST 1997 Message number: 62 Reply to message number: 56 DD> Does anybody believe the nuclear power industry when they tell us that DD> generating electricity by nuclear means is safe and there is nothing to wor DD> about? How do people arrive at such a belief? I'd be interested to hear. Generating electricity by nuclear means is safe, and there is nothing to worry about. I know this is true, because if it wasn't true, God wouldn't let us do it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVE THE LUCKY To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: Nuclear Waste Threat Date: Wed Jan 29 15:45:59 CST 1997 Message number: 63 Reply to message number: 59 DR> That's the biggest problem, of course: we can't trust what NSP says, DR> as they have a demonstrated pattern of dishonesty. I might be able to buy DR> the idea that running the 2 nuclear plants until we have other energy DR> sources online is the best bet, might even be able to believe that the DR> proposed merger makes sense for both NSP and the consumer ... but I DR> can't believe it when NSP can't seen to get their facts straight. Agreed, Daedalus. In both the NSP situation and the Twins deal, there's too much money involved to believe anybody at first blush. And speaking of money, check out this weeks Twin Cities Reader. Good article about utilities that want to buy nuclear waste storage by bribing American Indians. An interesting side note of the story is that Utah is the state with the highest per-capita amount of stored radioactive waste, and Utah has no nuclear reactors anywhere in the state. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: Anti-nuke Rally Date: Thu Jan 30 02:57:51 CST 1997 Message number: 64 Reply to message number: 60 DR> Got class then, but I would be interested in seeing the House meet when DR> they go over their DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act) legislation. Anyone DR> know when that's set to be heard in the Civil/Family Law Division committee DR> hearing? DR> They have a new thing this year. You can call the House Index number and key into some menus that will tell you the daily committee schedule, as well as some upcoming committee meetings. Maybe you can find it there. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Dave The Lucky Subject: Re: Nuclear Waste Threat Date: Thu Jan 30 03:01:49 CST 1997 Message number: 65 Reply to message number: 61 F> I have another question. What the hell is radioactive scrap metal? DT> DT> Eventually, almost everything in a nuclear reactor chamber becomes irradiat DT> by the neutron flux--nuts and bolts, pump bushings, etc. This is where you DT> get your "radioactive scrap metal". DT> I was also a scientist and I understand this. As a matter of fact, that is one reason why I asked the question in the first place. Are we now to understand that the reactor at Monticello is degrading and pieces of it are being replaced? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Dave The Lucky Subject: Re: Nuclear Waste Threat Date: Thu Jan 30 03:03:28 CST 1997 Message number: 66 Reply to message number: 63 DT> And speaking of money, check out this weeks Twin Cities Reader. Good artic DT> about utilities that want to buy nuclear waste storage by bribing American DT> Indians. An interesting side note of the story is that Utah is the state w Unfortunately, I can't get a copy of the Reader. Who is the author of this piece? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVE THE LUCKY To: Froggy Subject: Re: Nuclear Waste Threat Date: Fri Jan 31 11:10:54 CST 1997 Message number: 67 Reply to message number: 66 F> Unfortunately, I can't get a copy of the Reader. Who is the author F> of this piece? Sorry, Froggy, I wasn't aware. (That seems like a common failing lately...) I'll start paraphrasing or quoting my beloved Reader stories more often, if you'll all agree not to tell the US Office of Copyright. Deal? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAVE THE LUCKY To: Froggy Subject: Re: Nuclear Waste Threat Date: Fri Jan 31 11:19:00 CST 1997 Message number: 68 Reply to message number: 65 F> I was also a scientist and I understand this. As a matter of fact, F> that is one reason why I asked the question in the first place. Hopefully others who are not scientists will understand a bit more, also. I didn't intend to talk down to you at all. F> Are we now F> understand that the reactor at Monticello is degrading and pieces of it are F> being replaced? My understanding is that the "lifetime" of a nuclear plant has more to do with the expected durability of it's primary reactor components, like the containment vessel, the fuel assembly, etc. These things are supposed to be good for 30-50 years or more, depending on the size of the reactor, before neutron-induced metal fatigue makes them no longer "safe" enough to be relied upon in extraordinary circumstances. The assumption seems to be that it is better (whether safer, cheaper, or both I don't know) to scrap the whole plant then replace these key components. Other components do not have that long a lifespan and must be replaced occasionally. Yes, the Monticello plant is getting old (my records show that it was commissioned in June of 1971), but the plant is good for at least ten more years before NSP has to even seriously consider decomissioning it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Dave The Lucky Subject: Re: Nuclear Waste Threat Date: Fri Jan 31 12:32:52 CST 1997 Message number: 69 Reply to message number: 67 DT> I'll start paraphrasing or quoting my beloved Reader stories more often, if DT> you'll all agree not to tell the US Office of Copyright. Deal? Paraphrasing is fine. Even quoting directly is OK if you credit the author and publications. I know a couple of the READER's writers, and the reall appreciate credits. :) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Dave The Lucky Subject: Re: Nuclear Waste Threat Date: Fri Jan 31 12:43:10 CST 1997 Message number: 70 Reply to message number: 68 DT> Hopefully others who are not scientists will understand a bit more, also. DT> didn't intend to talk down to you at all. DT> Sorry if I was oversensitive. I really didn't feel talked down to at all. More lie impatient. DT> My understanding is that the "lifetime" of a nuclear plant has more to do w DT> the expected durability of it's primary reactor components, like the DT> containment vessel, the fuel assembly, etc. These things are supposed to b DT> good for 30-50 years or more, depending on the size of the reactor, before DT> neutron-induced metal fatigue makes them no longer "safe" enough to be reli DT> upon in extraordinary circumstances. The assumption seems to be that it is DT> better (whether safer, cheaper, or both I don't know) to scrap the whole pl DT> then replace these key components. DT> This does make sense. Most machines, including cars, usually wear out smaller parts first. I wonder who determines when it is no longer safe. I don't know if it is still in the files here, but a while ao, I uploaded a newspaper article I had written about the poor quality control and failures and NSP lies about the dry casks in use at Prairie Island. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: All Subject: activism Date: Sat Feb 01 18:28:51 CST 1997 Message number: 71 Reply to message number: unavailable Activism in Three Easy Steps Activism in Three Easy Steps by Steve Kangas If you're like most people, the corruption going on in Washington D.C. appalls you. But you realize that the special interests in our nation's capital are entrenched, and reform seems hopeless; nothing short of the Second American Revolution will drive them out. Unfortunately, you don't have time to foment revolution between picking up the baby at three and dropping her off at the baby-sitter's at three-thirty. Besides, you might even view political activists as a faintly ridiculous species -- too obsessed, too militant and too weird to suit your tastes. Still, you would like to do something to help, because you are concerned about the direction this country is going. This article is for you. The trick is to find the quickest but most efficient and effective form of activism possible. Happily, there are several things you can do that take only minutes a year out of your schedule, and yet have dramatic and long-lasting effects. However, even these efforts can be wasted if they are not directed at the heart of the problem. It is absolutely critical to identify what the true core problem is, because all other problems in society stem from it. Certainly, you would prefer cutting down a dead tree by chopping away at its trunk -- not each individual twig! And this is especially critical for liberals, because liberals do not have as many resources as conservatives, either in time, money, organization or lobbying power. So whatever liberals do must count. What is the heart of the problem? The hundreds of pages and statistics on this website make one long, sustained and repeatedly proven argument: that inequality of income is the basis of nearly all of our society's ills. Both Harvard and Berkeley have studied income inequality in all 50 states, and have found that states with higher income inequality have all the following social problems: Higher rates of homicide. Higher rates of violent crime. Higher costs per person for police protection. Higher rates of incarceration. Higher rates of unemployment. A higher percentage of people receiving income assistance and food stamps. More high-school dropouts. Less state funds spent per person on education. Fewer books per person in the schools. Poorer educational performance, including worse reading skills, worse math skills. Higher infant mortality rates. Higher death rates for all age groups. Higher heart disease. Higher cancer rates. A greater percentage of people without medical insurance. A greater proportion of babies born with low birth weight. A greater proportion of the population unable to work because of disabilities. A higher proportion of the population using tobacco. A higher proportion of the population being sedentary (inactive). Higher costs per-person for medical care. Extreme income inequality has devastating consequences for any society. And in America today it has reached levels not seen in six decades. Income inequality in postwar America can be divided into two distinct periods. Between 1947 and 1974, income inequality was reduced from .376 to .355 on the Gini scale (which goes from 0 to 1, with 1 being the most unequal). But between 1975 and 1994, income inequality dramatically grew, from .357 to .426, a level not seen since the Great Depression. Although the decades immediately following World War II were socially conservative, they were impeccably liberal from an economic standpoint. In the 1950s, the top individual tax rate was 91 percent. By the 60s, President Johnson would cut poverty nearly in half with his Great Society programs. And this was an era of unprecedented prosperity; white middle class families never had it so good, either before or since. Black families made enormous strides towards equality, with their poverty rate falling from 55 to 31 percent. This liberal economic era came to an end in 1975, when a quiet revolution took over Washington D.C. The stage was set in 1974, when the House of Representatives decentralized its power, allowing 22 committees to delegate much of their authority to 172 subcommittees. This not only created a mass of competing special interests, but enabled corporations to lobby their particular subcommittees much more directly, secretly and effectively. But the real shift in power came with the 1975 SUN-PAC decision, which basically legalized corporate political action committees. In 1974, there were only 89 quasi-corporate PACs; a decade later, this had exploded to 1,682. By 1992, corporations formed 67 percent of all PACs, and they donated 79 percent of all contributions to political parties. The rise of the corporate special interest system in 1975 resulted in a tremendous shift in power, away from workers and the poor, and towards corporations and the rich. Corporate lobbyists wasted no time scaling back the programs of the New Deal and the Great Society. Under Jimmy Carter's presidency alone, corporate lobbyists bribed Congress to do all of the following: Pass the first tax cut for the rich in 15 years: a reduction in the capital gains tax from 39 to 28 percent. Raise social security taxes, a heavily regressive tax that hits the poor the hardest. Impose a tax on unemployment benefits. (!) Reduce cash welfare benefits. Kill Ralph Nader's pet project: the creation of a Consumer Protection Agency. Deregulate airlines, trucking, railroads, oil, telecommunications and interest rates, and create the deregulation machinery that Reagan would later use. Increase defense spending. And all this happened before Ronald Reagan! Under the corporate special interest system, the top tax rates were reduced from 70 percent to as low as 28 percent, while regressive payroll, state and local taxes were raised on the poor. Executive pay exploded, while the average hourly wage fell from $8.55 to $7.40 in constant 82 dollars. The value of individual welfare benefits were cut over 40 percent. Poverty has actually risen, from 11 to 15 percent. And this is the first generation of middle class Americans who believe that they will not see their parents' standard of living -- while the richest 1 percent owns nearly 40 percent of America's wealth. This, in a nutshell, is the core problem facing liberals. Those who wish to become activists need to direct their energies to dismantling the corporate special interest system and restoring greater equality of income. The gap between the rich and poor cannot be completely eliminated, nor should we want it to, but the gap should certainly be reduced from its current insane size, and policies should be enacted that allow rich and poor incomes to grow at the same pace, not apart. Before deciding on the most effective activist strategy, liberals need to survey both their advantages and disadvantages. The advantages they have are these: Academia is liberal -- there is no shortage of facts and data needed to win any argument. The Democratic Party is the largest party in America -- there are more liberals than conservatives. Vast majorities of the American people support liberal positions on the environment, abortion, gun control, health care reform, worker issues and women's issues. Conservatives are often the victims of their own political divisions. For example, the GOP needs the activism of its pro-life faction but the votes of the nation's pro-choice majority. Since the pro-life faction is irreconcilable on the issue, this puts the GOP in an impossible position to select candidates that win elections. The GOP is also suffering an inherent political contradiction, one that is utterly impossible to escape. The party favors rich white entrepreneurial males. To remain true to its constituency, it must pass legislation that many have called anti-environmental, racist, sexist, etc. But to win office, the GOP must appeal to women, minorities, environmentalists, etc. Literally the only way that the GOP can gain and hold power is to lie to the public. That is, they dress up their far right philosophies and legislation as moderate. But this has become less and less effective as the public has become savvy to it. As conditions worsen for the poor and even the middle class, more will become activist in liberal causes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BIG TEEBO To: All Subject: activism II Date: Sat Feb 01 18:30:41 CST 1997 Message number: 72 Reply to message number: unavailable Polls show that the anger Americans have traditionally reserved for government is now being transferred to corporations. A telephone poll of 800 Americans found that large majorities see corporate behavior as a serious national problem. When asked if reduced benefits (health care and pensions) are a serious problem or not, 82% say yes. Large layoffs during times of profitability are regarded as a serious problem by 81%; huge CEO salaries (which are now 200 times as large as the average worker's pay) are a serious problem for 79%, and stagnant wages (wages that don't keep up with the rising cost of living) are a serious problem for 76%. So the national mood seems to be swinging our way. On the other hand, the disadvantages facing liberal activists are these: Conservatives are superbly organized. The corporate special interest system is a well-oiled machine, designed to put out flash fires before they get out of control. Conservatives are far and away more politically active. They have enjoyed the highest voter turnouts for decades now, no small thanks to the organized voter drives conducted by the Christian Coalition and the National Rifle Association. However, it appears that they have maximized their voter turnout, whereas liberals have plenty more voters they can tap. Corporate lobbyists are easily the most well-funded of all lobbyists, and they are capable of doubling or even tripling their budgets with no problem at all. Liberals can't even begin to think of waging this war on money alone. Think tanks are overwhelmingly conservative, and in fact are funded by corporations who lobby heavily on Capital Hill. Unlike academia, think tanks have only one purpose: to produce studies that provide appealing sound bites for conservative politicians. Examples include America has wasted $5.3 trillion on the war on poverty, or The typical welfare family in California collects over $20,000 in benefits a year. Serious academicians can destroy these sound bites. But the refutations require a few pages of analysis at least, and therefore do not enjoy the same press coverage as sound bites. Think tanks are taking advantage of this. The media is becoming increasingly conservative. It may have been liberal once, and large parts of it may even be liberal today, but the trend is clearly towards greater conservatism. The driving force behind this is greater corporate monopolization of the media. In 1983, there were 50 corporations controlling the U.S. media; today there are fewer than 20, and that number is rapidly shrinking as newer and larger media mergers make headlines. These parent corporations are extremely conservative and highly active in the corporate special interest system. And, their protests aside, they do influence the news you read and hear. The news media is curiously uncritical of corporate behavior, and almost no attention at all is paid to worker issues like safety, child-care and falling incomes. At this point, the reader may want to pause and take a deep breath. What's a potential liberal activist to do? The title of this article is Activism in Three Easy Steps. The following three suggestions will take up only a little of your time or effort, but they will produce major, long-term results: 1. Vote. And get your friends to vote. Historically, the higher the voter turnout, the more Democrats tend to win. Republicans simply don't have any more voters they can turn out; Democrats do. The only way conservatives can increase the conservative vote any more is to convert more people to conservatism. However, recent history suggests they can't do this. The result of the Rush Limbaugh phenomenon was to fire up those who already considered themselves conservatives, not win more converts to the party. He inspired more Republicans to visit the ballot box, but he turned off and even angered most people who did not already identify themselves as Republicans. After all, how can you convert someone to an ideology that identifies her as the enemy? So liberals have a huge advantage here, and they will win if they but exercise it. The composition of Congress is a crucial factor in deciding whether the laws that come out of Washington in the next two or four years will be conservative or liberal. Some might complain that there is no difference between the two parties. This is not true on many social issues, but as far as serving the corporate special interest system goes, they are entirely correct: Democratic politicians are no different from Republican ones in accepting corporate bribes. So, no, voting will not end the corporate special interest system. But it is an important first step in ameliorating the damage, and it will make further reforms even easier to accomplish. 2. Donate to causes that specifically battle the corporate special interest system. Donations take only a small part of your time and paycheck. (The average American donates 1.7 percent of his check to charity.) But the result is that you have helped hire a full-time activist to fight on your behalf. In many important ways, it is better for a large group of people to hire a small group of fighting specialists, rather than for a large group of unconnected individuals to waste their time and energy through duplication of effort, inexperience and lack of a clear, overall strategy. And it is absolutely critical to know which organizations to donate to. Again, the analogy of cutting down a tree by its trunk rather than its twigs is most appropriate here. We would all like to fight pollution, save the children and stop handguns. But the most effective and efficient donations are ones to organizations that go directly to the heart of the problem: income inequality and the corporate special interest system. Solving these core problems will have a rippling effect on these many other important issues, and will make them even easier to solve. The following is a list of organizations devoted to battling income inequality and the corporate special interest system. This author is neither connected to nor employed by any of them, and does not vouch for them in any way except to note that their fundamental purpose is to battle these two core problems: Citizens for Tax Justice. Congress Watch. (A division of Ralph Nader's Public Citizen) AFL-CIO. 3. Join, support or form your local union. Unions are absolutely critical to reducing income inequality in America. They are the most important defense workers have, because they attack the problem directly. Without them, reform is a long, slow, uphill battle in a secondary and much more inefficient arena: Congress. The Republicans are terrified of unions. In the 1996 election campaign, a resurgent organized labor has been instrumental in turning the tide against the Republicans. With rapidly growing membership and sufficiently funded coffers, unions have tapped into the growing discontent of working middle class Americans, and caused Republicans to lash out with increasingly shrill attacks. The argument for unionizing is driven by solid economic theory. Unions are indispensable because of the dynamics of the labor market. The labor market, like any other market, is dictated by the laws of supply and demand. When the supply of workers is high, there is downward pressure on prices (wages). This means that there is a relationship between the unemployment rate and wages. A dramatic example is the Massachusetts Miracle of the 1980s, when unemployment fell to a phenomenally low 2.7 percent, and McDonalds began offering starting wages of $7 an hour to attract workers. Unfortunately, when the unemployment rate is higher, as it normally is, wages fall. In the U.S. economy, the natural rate of unemployment is about 6 percent -- a rate purposely maintained by the Federal Reserve to fight inflation. Because there are more workers than jobs, that means that workers have to compete for jobs, and it's an employer's market. He gets to set wages as low as he can get away with and still meet his needs. Now, conservatives like to maintain the fiction that wage agreements are not the result of these market forces, but the result of voluntary agreements between employer and employee. But they are only voluntary insofar as the job applicant decides it's better to accept these poverty wages than starve. Besides, if he doesn't take this job offer, one of those 6 percent who are starving gladly will, because something is better than nothing. So the entire problem boils down to the fact that workers are competing with each other, and in the process making sure that no one wins this competition. Therefore workers have no interest in bargaining individually with employers for wages. It is much better to bargain collectively, to join unions and cooperate with each other in their wage demands. Many Americans, even liberals, have been critical of unions in the past. This is not the case in Europe, where unions are popular and a normal part of everyday life. As a result, Europe not only has less income inequality than the U.S., but less of all the other social problems outlined in the Harvard and Berkeley studies above. Unions in America often get bad press, but that's largely because the U.S. media is corporate-owned, and some of the bitterest and most violent strikes have happened at newspapers. (Europe has a long tradition of a public media, beholden to no commercial interest but the voters'.) It also hasn't helped that American unions tend to be undemocratic (also quite unlike their European counterparts). Like any undemocratic institution, American unions of yesteryear were given to corruption and abuses of power. But lately, unions have rebounded. The government has cracked down on organized crime within the unions, reforms have strengthened their democratic policies, and membership and donations are now enjoying a healthy recovery. New members should insist on the highest democratic ideals, to make sure this recovery becomes permanent. And indeed, things look very hopeful. Others criticize unions for inflating the price of things, a dangerous trend in a global economy where America supposedly competes with low-wage nations. (As top economist Paul Krugman points out, this competition is a myth -- but let's let that pass.) Actually, this is a misrepresentation of what unions do. Unions do not inflate the price of things -- they merely ensure that whatever profits are realized are divided more equitably. It is not in a union's interest to put itself out of a job. In companies where management opens its books, union leaders can determine if the company is struggling and, if so, they will agree to wage concessions. But if the company is making windfall profits, unions are important in spreading those rewards more equitably among those who helped make them happen. Some might feel uncomfortable trying to organize the three teenage employees working in their local Mom and Pop store. Certainly, unionization isn't for everyone. But it's still in your interest to support and become a member of a national union, even if it doesn't represent you at your current job. Remember that unions are your lobbyist on Capital Hill; they are your academic resource producing rebuttals to flawed conservative think tank studies; they are fighting for your worker's issues in general. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SPECTER To: Big Teebo Subject: Re: activism II Date: Mon Feb 03 14:35:48 CST 1997 Message number: 73 Reply to message number: 72 BT> Donations take only a small part of your time and paycheck. (The BT> average American donates 1.7 percent of his check to charity.) But the BT> result is that you have helped hire a full-time activist to fight on your BT> behalf. In many important ways, it is better for a large group of people BT> to hire a small group of fighting specialists, rather than for a large BT> group of unconnected individuals to waste their time and energy through BT> duplication of effort, inexperience and lack of a clear, overall strategy. I was reminded of an article somewhere about the influence of special interest groups, an article that was fairly even in its analysis of them. While corporate special interests are pretty much wrong because they enforce the desires of the few on the many, special interest groups made of people rather than corporations are a good tool because they allow masses of people to assemble a single fight together, and serve as a democratic aid because they can voice a loud and unison call for change. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Specter Subject: Re: activism II Date: Tue Feb 04 02:01:03 CST 1997 Message number: 74 Reply to message number: 73 S> corporate special interests are pretty much wrong because they enforce the S> desires of the few on the many, special interest groups made of people S> rather than corporations are a good tool because they allow masses of people S> to assemble a single fight together, and serve as a democratic aid because S> they can voice a loud and unison call for change. ... which is also one of the strongest aruments for unions, that they serve as a check against corporate/business power. As the membership in unions has declined, the wage differential between the workers and their employers has grown, as has the abuses by those same corporations ... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: activism II Date: Tue Feb 04 05:10:08 CST 1997 Message number: 75 Reply to message number: 74 DR> ... which is also one of the strongest aruments for unions, that they serv DR> as a check against corporate/business power. As the membership in unions ha DR> declined, the wage differential between the workers and their employers has DR> grown, as has the abuses by those same corporations ... Is it just my imagination, or are the unions regaining some strength since the PATCO fiasco? They seemed like lame ducks for a while, and were not doing much, but lately, I have been hearing more and more things where the union was involved. An example took place in St. Cloud last night. The municipal employee's contract was being considered for renewal by the city council. A group od pro-lifers was agitating to remove the coverage for abortion from the contract. The council voted to keep the coverage as it was, and after the vote was taken, several members of the council said that they were pro-life, but that they voted to keep the existing contract because they were afraid that the union would strike. Whew! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SPECTER To: Daedalus Rising Subject: Re: activism II Date: Tue Feb 04 15:49:58 CST 1997 Message number: 76 Reply to message number: 74 DR> ... which is also one of the strongest aruments for unions, that they serv DR> as a check against corporate/business power. As the membership in unions ha DR> declined, the wage differential between the workers and their employers has DR> grown, as has the abuses by those same corporations ... Quite true... The voice of the unions is a strong, strong tool for greater wage fairness, and a strong check against corporate abuse... I would like it very much if the people of America realized, en masse, that unions are a tool for the very democratic principles this nation was founded on. Any past union abuses ought to be forgiven so we as a nation can move forward towards greater democracy. B.T.W. Thank you for the html info, it was useful. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: Froggy Subject: Re: activism II Date: Thu Feb 06 12:48:12 CST 1997 Message number: 77 Reply to message number: 75 F> Is it just my imagination, or are the unions regaining some strengt F> since the PATCO fiasco? They seemed like lame ducks for a while, and were n F> doing much, but lately, I have been hearing more and more things where the They're somewhat stronger, but mainly because of a shakeup in the leadership. In general, unions are still weak and sometimes wholly ineffective. Locally, for example, Rainbow is being bought out. The new owners vow to hire twice as many employees - in plain English, to hire a bunch of part-timers and keep everyone under 30 hours so they don't have to pay them any benefits. And that's too damned bad, because a grocery job is one of the few places where a person can go with no education and work their way into a halfway decent job. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAEDALUS RISING To: All Subject: Action Alert! Date: Mon Feb 17 15:48:10 CST 1997 Message number: 78 Reply to message number: unavailable To: afa-alert@berean.net Subject: AFA ACTION ALERT -- "The Best Way To Reduce Teen Pregnancy" The AFA Alert is a one-way list. Responses will not be posted to the list. AFA ACTION ALERT (more than 2,100 subscribers) American Family Association Dr. Donald E. Wildmon, President P. O. Drawer 2440 Tupelo, Mississippi 38803 Telephone: 601/844-5036 Fax: 601/844-9176 Email: bud@afa.net World Wide Web: http://www.afa.net ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ THE BEST WAY TO REDUCE TEEN PREGNANCY USA WEEKEND is conducting a call-in survey on the best way to reduce teen pregnancy. The options are: 1. Teach Abstinence 2. Teach safe sex 3. Punish teens who have sex (enforce fornication laws) To vote - please call 1-800-643-5277. It is a toll free call. Only 1 call per phone number. The lines are open through Thursday, February 20 at midnight. The results will be published in the March 21-23 issue. American Family Association encourages subscribers to the AFA ACTION ALERT to please call and make your opinion known. Thank you. ================================================== "Bringing Truth to the Information Super Highway" Please tell a friend about the AFA ACTION ALERT Register on the World Wide Web: http://www.afa.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: FROGGY Subject: Pot Growing Hippy haters Date: Sun Mar 23 18:10:21 CST 1997 Message number: 79 Reply to message number: unavailable -=> Quoting Froggy to Specter <=- Fr> Jennings also focused on a couple who described Fr> themselves as "Rush Limbaugh Republicans," who have 1200 plants in Fr> their basement. They have jobs -- just want more money. As I pondered Fr> how much money those poor states could get from legalizing and taxing Fr> MJ, it also occurred to me who would be protesting taxing it. Fr> Progressive, indeed! I found this couple to be annoying hypocrites. When they went to Denmark they commented on the hippies there with contempt. Atleast these hippies aren't bullshitting themselves into thinking that they are better because of political belief. I can imagine when these "Rush Limbaugh" republicans get busted. "Were not liberals! We listen to Rush Limbaugh!" ... Taglines are irrelevant. You will be assimilated into the Blue Wave. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FROGGY To: Sandman Subject: Re: Pot Growing Hippy haters Date: Sun Mar 23 23:52:55 CST 1997 Message number: 80 Reply to message number: 79 S> Fr> themselves as "Rush Limbaugh Republicans," who have 1200 plants in S> Fr> their basement. They have jobs -- just want more money. As I pondered S> I found this couple to be annoying hypocrites. S> When they went to Denmark they commented on the hippies there with S> contempt. S> Atleast these hippies aren't bullshitting themselves into thinking S> that they are better because of political belief. S> S> I can imagine when these "Rush Limbaugh" republicans get busted. S> "Were not liberals! We listen to Rush Limbaugh!" S> I had the same reaction. I wondered how they justify most conservative's absolute hatred of drug dealers. Do they join in the rabble demanding more life sentences and harsher sentences, or do they just keep quiet? It seems to me that this is the ultimate betrayal, where they cannot even be honest how they stand on the issue. I wondered if they were planning to claim the income for this and if they were willing to support things like legal aid for 13 year olds who were caught selling their product, and for treatment for those who started into a big-time addiction with their product. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: The commies are coming! Date: Sun Apr 27 19:42:19 CDT 1997 Message number: 81 Reply to message number: unavailable Check out these next 2 posts. Quite logical and I believe factual. Note that these steps/goals are applicable to many other movements. Such as labor unions and the religious right. ... "Another dream that failed. There's nothing sadder." ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: Commie! Date: Sun Apr 27 19:42:20 CDT 1997 Message number: 82 Reply to message number: unavailable Ä Area: CIVLIB ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ From: John Freeman Read: Yes Replied: No Subj: Communist Rules for Revol ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ COMMUNIST RULES FOR REVOLUTION The Dusseldorf Manifesto A. Corrupt the young, get them away from religion. Get them interested is sex. Make them superficial, destroy their ruggedness. B. Get control of all means of publicity and thereby: 1. Get people's minds off their government by focusing their attention on athletics, sexy books and plays and other trivialities. 2. Divide the people into hostile groups by constantly harping on controversial matters of no importance. 3. Destroy the people's faith in their natural leaders by holding the latter up to contempt, ridicule and obloquy. 4. Always preach true democracy but seize power as fast and as ruthlessly as possible. 5. By encouraging government extravagance, destroy it's credit, produce fear of inflation with rising prices and general discontent. 6. Foment unnecessary strikes in vital industries, encourage civil disorder, and foster a lenient and soft attitude on the part of government toward such disorders. 7. By specious argument cause the breakdown of old moral virtues; honesty, sobriety, continence, faith in the pledged word, ruggedness. C. Cause the registration of all firearms on some pretext, with a view to confiscating them and leaving the population helpless. These "Communist Rules for Revolution" were captured from a Communist Cell in Dusseldorf Germany in May, 1919. (Yes, I said _1919_ folks!) If YOU are a thinking person, YOU should be able to see what has happened to our once great nation. THEY have had most of this century to bring THEIR "Plan" together. We used to call Communism just that. Now, THEY call it a "New World Order!" Don't let THEM deceive YOU! Communism is not "DEAD," THEY just gave it this "New" Name and THEY want you to think it will be wonderful! My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.... - Hosea 4:6 ÉÍËÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ» º*º I am only one, but I am one, I cannot do everything, º º*º but I can do something. What I can do, I should do º º*º and, with the help of God, I will do! Everett Hale º º*ÌÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍͼ º*º John Freeman º*º Monday, March 24, 1997, 8:53 a.m. º*º From This Sovereign Free Man's Point Èͼ NP: The Righteous Brothers: Little Latin Lupe Lu! CR: Masters Of Deceit by J. Edgar Hoover ... Clinton - More Communist tax-and-spend at OUR expense. ~^~ Tag-O-Matic V.12 * Sovereignty of government is a fiction of lawyer's. -!- Terminate 4.00/Pro ! Origin: What is mine cannot be taken away without my consent. (1:3629/101.5) ... My mind. It's going. Hey! Let me tell you about Jesus. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SANDMAN To: ALL Subject: Commie!!!!!!!!! Date: Sun Apr 27 19:42:21 CDT 1997 Message number: 83 Reply to message number: unavailable Ä Area: CIVLIB ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ From: John Freeman Read: Yes Replied: No Subj: Communist Goals ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ COMMUNIST GOALS FOR THE CONQUEST OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA {Taken from the Congressional Record, January 10, 1963. Check and see the progress they have made toward this in the past 34 years.} 1. Create an attitude on the part of the American people where they would be willing to capitulate with Communism, rather than engage in war - particularly a nuclear war. 2. Develop the illusion that total disarmament of the United States would be a demonstration of our moral strength. 3. Provide American economic aid to all nations world wide, regardless of Communist domination. 4. Grant recognition of Red China. Support the admission of Red China to the United Nations and withdraw support for Free China. 5. Do away with loyalty oaths. 6. Continue giving the Soviets access to the United States Patent Office, and supply the Communists with the technology that was developed by America. 7. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum and shift attention away from education which would develop intellect and moral character. Put the Party Line in textbooks. 8. Get control of the teacher's associations and gain control of all student newspapers. 9. Use student riots to foment public protest against programs and organizations which are under Communist attack. 10. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book review assignments, editorial writing, and policy making positions. 11. Gain control of key positions in radio, television, and motion pictures. 12. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of the free press and free speech. 13. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with the "social gospel." 14. Eliminate prayer and every type of religious expression in the schools. 15. Use "Mental Health" laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose these goals. ANY INTELLIGENT PERSON SHOULD BE ABLE TO SEE HOW FAR DOWN THE ROAD WE HAVE COME IN ATTAINING THESE COMMUNIST GOALS! ONLY YOUR HELP WILL STOP THEM! ONLY THROUGH YOUR EFFORTS AND THE HELP OF ALMIGHTY GOD, CAN AMERICA REMAIN FREE! Thou shalt not kill. - Exodus 20:13 ÉÍËÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ» º*º Any power must be the enemy of mankind which enslaves the º º*º individual by terror and force, whether it arises under a º º*º Fascist or Communist flag. All that is valuable in human º º*º society depends upon the opportunity for development º º*º accorded to the individual. Albert Einstein º ÌÍÎÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍͼ º*º John Freeman º*º Monday, March 24, 1997, 10:25 a.m. º*º From This Sovereign Free Man's Point! Èͼ NP: Radio Free America with Tom Valentine: The Three United States! CR: A Nation Of Sheep by William J. Lederer ... A nation of sheep soon becomes a government of wolves. ^^^ Tag-O-Matic V.12 * Those not ruled by God, will be ruled by tyrants! -!- Terminate 4.00/Pro ! Origin: The State only exists in the minds of people. (1:3629/101.5) ... Support the metric system every inch of the way ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]